Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Update on the IIFYM experiment I am finishing up

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Update on the IIFYM experiment I am finishing up

    I have been meaning to do this update for a while now so I apologize for not getting it done sooner.

    The experiment was for people that were either wanting to drop body fat or gain weight/bulk. For the first 8 weeks the plan was to stay only with IIFYM and then switch to a typical plan that I would do with clean food sources. I did give clients of the experiment the opportunity to change from the IIFYM sooner if they wanted to but that they had to do at least 4 weeks of the IIFYM.

    The experiment is not completely over as there are a few weeks left but I wanted to update, anyway, as I clearly see what the results were and so do my clients. I want to encourage them to share their individual opinions on their situation in this thread.

    What I saw was this: Results were all over the place with pretty much nothing that was consistent. There were 2 or 3 people that did progress well on the IIFYM with 2 guys deciding to stay on the IIFYM and continue to cut weight. Pretty much everyone else didn't like it and didn't like the results.

    What is important to note is that there were MANY that were stalled on the IIFYM approach and the first week they made the shift to clean food sources, all but 1 progressed that week when there was no progression for the 2 weeks prior. The ONLY change was the change in food sources. Calories and macros remained the same.

    I walk away with pretty much the same view on IIFYM that I had prior but I admit that I was surprised to see at least 2 people respond very well and continue to respond well for almost the entire duration of the experiment. Still, the fact that there was no consistency just shows that the method isn't for everyone. The large majority of people that did the experiment didn't much like the IIFYM approach.

    Anyone that wants to get in here and give their opinions on the IIFYM can feel free to do so.

    Skip


    Facebook: Skip Hill
    Instagram: @intensemuscle
    YouTube: TEAMSKIP
    TikTok: @intensemuscle


    For Training Inquiries: [email protected]

    Use discount code "SKIP" and get your TEAM SKIP protein here: www.TrueNutrition.com/TEAMSKIPblend

  • #2
    Your outcome reminds me of Homon's recent thread on elite about diet..."Snowflake"

    What can strange though Skip, is that people will persist with something that clearly doesn't work for them, "if I wait another few weeks, magic will happen?"

    The other downfall to IIFYM (with most people I come into contact with), even though it sounds great to be eating ice cream/apple pie/chocolate/brownies etc, you have to limit the amount of it, how many people have the mental fotritude to have only 2 scoops of ice cream, 1 slice of apple pie to fit it into their macros..Not many at all..temptation is a killer.
    The other misconception is a bunch of people eating only ice cream all day getting shredded, and from speaking to crossfitters/powerlifters/strongmen/bodybuilders, all of whom use it with success, that is not the case, it is more so 80/20 (80% clean food / 20% 'dirty').

    Hope I haven't mislead the thread there, please delete if so.

    Comment


    • #3
      i'm going to question proper counting and amounts, and if any outside restaurant/fastfood was eaten, how accurate the nutrition facts are on those meals.

      Comment


      • #4
        I used this approach the last two preps. I got leaner with this style than any other I have done.I also did less cardio than before. The food selection and satiety is something that takes a little bit of time to figure out. Yes, ice cream and cake sound great for every meal, but you will soon be at your fat/carb max macros, and still be hungry. I think the majority of my foods were lean proteins, baked chips, bread (any kind)..But I still would have a snickers (If i had room), pancakes, cereal.

        There are a lot of extremely shredded and strong individuals who use this approach. I don't know why it seems to be a natural thing.

        Skip did you have your clients have a goal for their fiber intake?

        You really have to be diligent about tracking everything to the gram, but this goes along with any diet. Why did the ones who disliked it, dislike it?

        Good to see though.
        2005 HOA Natural Classic
        2006 OCB Midwest
        2007 ABA Natural Illinois
        2008 HOA Natural Classic
        2011
        NPC Mid-Illinois
        NPC Midwest Open
        NPC Natural Grand Prix
        2012 NGA Clash of the Titans
        2013
        USPA Illinois State
        NGA Heart of America
        NGA Clash of the Titans




        SAVE 5% ON YOUR NEXT ORDER FROM www.truenutrition.com order - Use Code RHB606

        Comment


        • #5
          Very interesting. Skip curious as to how the diets differed from your carb source experiment?

          Were the individuals in your IFFYM eating, say burritos, and then making up the differences to hit macros with protein powders? Wonder if this highlights how inaccurate product labels are as far as calories and content. Going to lean source allows for easy and more accurate tracking. Atleast in my experience
          steve302
          Bantamweight Member
          Last edited by steve302; 01-21-2014, 02:07 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by breck View Post
            I
            Skip did you have your clients have a goal for their fiber intake?
            I am curious of this, as well as what stipulations were put on the IIFYM approach.

            From what I see "some" notable IIFYM proponents only end up with something like 10-20% of their daily calories coming from foods that would be considered "dirty". The rest is pretty typical diet fare.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by drcrappants View Post
              i'm going to question proper counting and amounts, and if any outside restaurant/fastfood was eaten, how accurate the nutrition facts are on those meals.
              And you can do that but for someone that can count calories at home, they should be able to count them outside of the home, too. OR ... it just lends itself to the fact that when you eat shit food for your macros, sometimes there is no accurate caloric count - ie: how do you KNOW for sure how many calories of carbs and fat are in a slice of apple pie. No matter how you look at it, the IIFYM for most people, does not measure up to eating clean. And even if the results of conditioning were the same, can it be argued that it is healthy?

              Skip


              Facebook: Skip Hill
              Instagram: @intensemuscle
              YouTube: TEAMSKIP
              TikTok: @intensemuscle


              For Training Inquiries: [email protected]

              Use discount code "SKIP" and get your TEAM SKIP protein here: www.TrueNutrition.com/TEAMSKIPblend

              Comment


              • #8
                Their main issue was hunger because almost all of them, even the ones that it seemed to work well for, were hungry a LOT of the time. This makes complete sense given the faster acting carbs that most choose on this type of protocol.

                I would disagree with your statement that there are a LOT of people that use it and get shredded. I think there are some very young, advanced bodybuilders like John Irrizay (sp?) that "get away wihth it" but my point and John Meadow's point and most of the people at the top of the industry, feel that it is not the best and most productive way to get ripped.

                I have not seen pics from your show so I would ask: did you get into "really good" condition or did you get peeled to the point where your condition could not have been any better than it was? Most people that get away with using this type of dieting were either very, very lean to begin with or have the metabolism that is incredibly fast. I am yet to see an older guy that tends to be more of an endo, get anywhere near shredded on this.

                Again, I am speaking from experience based on what I have seen from others and of course from this experiment, now.

                Skip
                Originally posted by breck View Post
                I used this approach the last two preps. I got leaner with this style than any other I have done.I also did less cardio than before. The food selection and satiety is something that takes a little bit of time to figure out. Yes, ice cream and cake sound great for every meal, but you will soon be at your fat/carb max macros, and still be hungry. I think the majority of my foods were lean proteins, baked chips, bread (any kind)..But I still would have a snickers (If i had room), pancakes, cereal.

                There are a lot of extremely shredded and strong individuals who use this approach. I don't know why it seems to be a natural thing.

                Skip did you have your clients have a goal for their fiber intake?

                You really have to be diligent about tracking everything to the gram, but this goes along with any diet. Why did the ones who disliked it, dislike it?

                Good to see though.


                Facebook: Skip Hill
                Instagram: @intensemuscle
                YouTube: TEAMSKIP
                TikTok: @intensemuscle


                For Training Inquiries: [email protected]

                Use discount code "SKIP" and get your TEAM SKIP protein here: www.TrueNutrition.com/TEAMSKIPblend

                Comment


                • #9
                  No, I did not. I do not set fiber intake for any of my clients.

                  I would say this about fiber: Fiber won't make the difference between getting ripped and not ripped, though. It could help with satiety but only a very small amount. It also cuts to the diet not being as efficient as it could be if you have to add in something like fiber that would naturally be a component of a healthier and cleaner carb. That is like saying that if there was a drink that contained the perfect blend of proteins, fats and carbs, you could simply down all the vitamins you need in pill form, all of the fiber you need in pill form and all of the healthy fat you need in pill form and be healthy and ripped. That wouldn't be a very good alternative to a healthy diet of food.

                  Skip


                  Facebook: Skip Hill
                  Instagram: @intensemuscle
                  YouTube: TEAMSKIP
                  TikTok: @intensemuscle


                  For Training Inquiries: [email protected]

                  Use discount code "SKIP" and get your TEAM SKIP protein here: www.TrueNutrition.com/TEAMSKIPblend

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I could have been leaner, yes. I would say I was lean, but peeled..no. But my best to date. I can always be leaner, and admittedly, I have yet to have been shredded glute lean. I did lose ~50lbs, but I never should have been that far away from stage weight....which may be another reason I have yet to really nail conditioning as a standout.

                    When I said a lot of people using with success, I was just speaking from the ones I know. And I don't know exactly how your clients ate or anything..The guys I was thinking of were Layne Norton, Alberto Nunez, Jeff Alberts to name a few.

                    Hunger would be an issue for me as well. Which is why I started to pick foods that were more filling. I also hit 30g fiber each day, but I am not sure if that helped strive off hunger pains or not. Most people are going to be hungry toward the end of a prep, no matter what kind of diet they are on...most.

                    What is your take on sugar? Do you feel it inhibits fat loss? It seems like it used to be the enemy in so many discussions, but I have read stuff by Alan Aragon, where he is not against sugar.
                    2005 HOA Natural Classic
                    2006 OCB Midwest
                    2007 ABA Natural Illinois
                    2008 HOA Natural Classic
                    2011
                    NPC Mid-Illinois
                    NPC Midwest Open
                    NPC Natural Grand Prix
                    2012 NGA Clash of the Titans
                    2013
                    USPA Illinois State
                    NGA Heart of America
                    NGA Clash of the Titans




                    SAVE 5% ON YOUR NEXT ORDER FROM www.truenutrition.com order - Use Code RHB606

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If you could have been leaner and peeled, why would you continue to use IIFYM?

                      The way I am looking at it is you have one way that is more optimal then the other. Sure you can get away with being lean at a show but if I had the opportunity to be peeled I would go with Skip's approach.

                      What I would be more interested breck, is you hiring a coach who uses IIFYM, doing a prep with them, then for your next prep hire Skip and see which method is truly optimal . Now that would be interesting.

                      Originally posted by breck View Post
                      I could have been leaner, yes. I would say I was lean, but peeled..no. But my best to date. I can always be leaner, and admittedly, I have yet to have been shredded glute lean. I did lose ~50lbs, but I never should have been that far away from stage weight....which may be another reason I have yet to really nail conditioning as a standout.

                      When I said a lot of people using with success, I was just speaking from the ones I know. And I don't know exactly how your clients ate or anything..The guys I was thinking of were Layne Norton, Alberto Nunez, Jeff Alberts to name a few.

                      Hunger would be an issue for me as well. Which is why I started to pick foods that were more filling. I also hit 30g fiber each day, but I am not sure if that helped strive off hunger pains or not. Most people are going to be hungry toward the end of a prep, no matter what kind of diet they are on...most.

                      What is your take on sugar? Do you feel it inhibits fat loss? It seems like it used to be the enemy in so many discussions, but I have read stuff by Alan Aragon, where he is not against sugar.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ken "Skip" Hill View Post
                        No, I did not. I do not set fiber intake for any of my clients.

                        I would say this about fiber: Fiber won't make the difference between getting ripped and not ripped, though. It could help with satiety but only a very small amount. It also cuts to the diet not being as efficient as it could be if you have to add in something like fiber that would naturally be a component of a healthier and cleaner carb. That is like saying that if there was a drink that contained the perfect blend of proteins, fats and carbs, you could simply down all the vitamins you need in pill form, all of the fiber you need in pill form and all of the healthy fat you need in pill form and be healthy and ripped. That wouldn't be a very good alternative to a healthy diet of food.

                        Skip
                        I think Breck is refering to setting a fiber target not adding in supplemental fiber. Setting a fiber target limits the amount of crap you can eat to a degree. Save for supplemental fiber you can't get 30g of fiber if you eat all fruity pebbles or ice cream for your carb sources.

                        Pretty sure Layne actually counts fiber towards the carb macro(I could be wrong on this), which would further lower the amount of crap you can eat.

                        I guess at some point, with all these stipulations, it just becomes another "diet" though. lol

                        Me personally I try and eat typical "diet" food Protein and Fats, and get my carbs where ever I want. A lot of time it is wholesome stuff, but I would say about 10-15% a day is junk..heh

                        Thanks for sharing the results. I always find this stuff interesting.
                        Imprezivr6
                        Intense Muscle Competitive Powerlifter 198lb Raw Club Total 1642
                        Last edited by Imprezivr6; 01-21-2014, 08:53 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Skip, have you already or do you plan to do something along the lines of an IF intermittent fasting experiment? I like how you are taking the most recent popular diet fads and kind of debunking them lol
                          SAVE 5-10% @ TRUENUTRITION.com Use code: LG100

                          - Success is the best revenge

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Herculeus View Post
                            If you could have been leaner and peeled, why would you continue to use IIFYM?

                            The way I am looking at it is you have one way that is more optimal then the other. Sure you can get away with being lean at a show but if I had the opportunity to be peeled I would go with Skip's approach.

                            What I would be more interested breck, is you hiring a coach who uses IIFYM, doing a prep with them, then for your next prep hire Skip and see which method is truly optimal . Now that would be interesting.
                            Good idea
                            2005 HOA Natural Classic
                            2006 OCB Midwest
                            2007 ABA Natural Illinois
                            2008 HOA Natural Classic
                            2011
                            NPC Mid-Illinois
                            NPC Midwest Open
                            NPC Natural Grand Prix
                            2012 NGA Clash of the Titans
                            2013
                            USPA Illinois State
                            NGA Heart of America
                            NGA Clash of the Titans




                            SAVE 5% ON YOUR NEXT ORDER FROM www.truenutrition.com order - Use Code RHB606

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Didn't you do an experiment a while back where people used strictly "skip loading"carbs for daily carb Intake and then skip loaded as well and clients had no hunger problems and all has great progress? What was different with this? Why do you think the results were so drastically different

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X