Staying lean and eating clean vs. EAT BIG/GET BIG!!! Settle this...

[RevolutionIsMyN]

Hey guys,

I was talking to a buddy of mine about this. He's a big guy; huge and ripped; he's obviously paid his dues.

So here's the deal; he was basically saying that the "you can't gain muscle without gaining fat" thing was really OLD / OUTDATED thinking, that if you're meticulous enough with diet and training, you can gain at just as good a rate as if you stuff your face with all the protein and food you can find, and not gain any fat.

He said that anyone (ectos and endos alike) can maintain a 7% bodyfat and gain steadily without any worries if they eat all the right foods and do the right amount of training.

Now while I didn't want to tell him I thought this was impossible, he still insisted on the fact that you can gain OPTIMALLY this way, and at this BF% (versus, for example, gains you'd get at 12%). According to him, bodybuilders in this day and age stay lean year-round and never get fat, because they don't need to anymore.

So what's the deal?

[Egill]

I voted for no since if you never let yourself get over 7% you are not gaining at maximum speed.

I'm not saying some can't get far while staying at a low bodyfat or keeping their bodyfat constant, lot of DC trainers gain a lot without adding any bodyfat etc. (or they loose bodyfat along the way), others have hard time gaining at a good speed without adding some bodyfat along the way.

I had two huge guys arguing with me, and they were convincing; almost shifted my paradigm but I know better... I think!

it is a logic assumption that if they are big and lean that they must know better how to add muscle than you and I'm pretty sure because of that what you say to them probably just goes in one ear and out the other,.... but you know better than that, genetics play a big part in this sport and they probably have them in their favor, otherwise they wouldn't be making statements like you can gain optimally at 7%,... maybe some "freaks" can do very well while staying that low, but for most, it ain't happening.

[craig57]

It is possible, yes, but not very likely. Or you could be 20% bf and losing % while gaining muscle (cardio, carb cutoffs blah blah..)

[sniffy54]

everyone i know personally who was successful in bodybuilding (npc level and up) gained some fat along with the muscle. the guys who nickpicked there diet never seemed to gain or change much season to season.

[Big Lee]

If you are eating low enough calories to stay super lean, how can you have enough calories in the diet to build new muscle tissue?? I think cals need to be in some sort of surplus so the leftovers can go towards building new muscle once basic body functions are catered for.

Im no Scott Abel though, not pumped enough on muscle tech. I am pumped on that chick Belladonna with the gap between her teeth.

[Ken "Skip" Hill]

When everyone is done, I will get in here, too.....

: )

Skip

[Badman]

It is possible to gain lean, but it is kind of ridiculous I rather just get as big as I possibly can then worry about trying to get lean, but dieting the right way lol... So I don't end up back where I started like most people on bb.com.

[Jason Pegg]

Is it just me, or is this topic covered in some way or form at least once a week?

Jason

[Badman]

Another thing I forgot to add if you only eat clean year round your body is going to be staying in homeostasis and that will not be worth all those workouts everyone does lol...

[AnyOldIron]

Another thing I forgot to add if you only eat clean year round your body is going to be staying in homeostasis and that will not be worth all those workouts everyone does lol...

indeed. when I ate clean for long periods of time I found that fat loss/strength gains slowed down after initially being very good (given that I'm come in off a shitty diet). when I threw in a 'metabolic reset day' the muscle gain/fat loss kicked off again.

[AnyOldIron]

If you are eating low enough calories to stay super lean, how can you have enough calories in the diet to build new muscle tissue?? I think cals need to be in some sort of surplus so the leftovers can go towards building new muscle once basic body functions are catered for.

well you can eat a calorie surplus and increase cardio/activity levels to make sure that fat spillover is kept to a minimum or even lean out while gaining.

having said that, extra fat is extra leverage and can help make you stronger, so you probably can't gain optimally while eating super clean.

[JNo20]

In theory, yes it's possible, but I voted no. Gotta have that surplus, and when you constantly aim for a surplus, you're gonna eventually accumulated a tad of fat.

[Fearhk213]

I too think it could be possible, but I'm saying no also. I think genetics play a huge roll in that. I know for myself I can't do that. When I stayed at a pretty consistent 8%bf gains came, but soon slowed. I upped the cals, gained some bf in the process, but the gains started coming again and they haven't stopped.

[wakejump4me]

i , also voted yes ...because it is possible .also , for people stepping on stage , why put on all the fat if it has to come off anyways .
i don't think that there is a reason to gain more muscle with added bodyfat.i can't back that up but i hope that someone could proof me wrong and explain to me why someone has more musclegain with extra bodyfat .
of course you would need to have the perfect calorieintake daily , every days calorieintake would look diffrnt. due to schedules , off days , etc. BUT the question here was if it would be possible to gain muscle without fat ,........... yes it is , if you wanted to do so..............
the other thing is that i have always wondered though is , ....would someone gain muscle a bit faster whilst gaining a bit fat at the same time ?i thought someone could because due to the extra bodyweight(from added fat) that person would be heavier and also stronger >>>>>which means being able to lift more weights

well thats my thought

wake

[AnyOldIron]

fat is relative of course - you can call going from 8% to 10% while gaining 10-15lbs of muscle being gaining fat while gaining muscle but that's still hardly a blimp.