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  • Alternate Exercise Rotation

    I want to focus on leg strength foremost and size. What are your opinions doing quad exercises every workout (working sets of 4-8 reps, followed by a widow maker). An example of the biweekly workout formats would be:

    Week 1
    Workout 1: Quads, Hamstrings, Back Width, Back Thickness, Biceps
    Workout 2: Quads, Chest, Shoulders, Triceps, Calves, Forearms
    Workout 3: Quads, Hamstrings, Back Width, Back Thickness, Biceps

    Week 2
    Workout 4: Quads, Chest, Shoulders, Triceps, Calves, Forearms
    Workout 5: Quads, Hamstrings, Back Width, Back Thickness, Biceps
    Workout 6: Quads, Chest, Shoulders, Triceps, Calves, Forearms

    I would not be opposed to doing certain exercises once a week or cutting them out of the program all together. I have contemplated also doing hamstrings every workout and removing some minor muscle lifts such as biceps or forearms, I would like to keep all of the original muscle groups in my workout rotation, however I foremost want to get the best/quickest leg strength and size results possible.

  • #2
    Seriously?

    Please tell me this a joke....have you read the stickies?

    What kind of training programs have you done before? Which styles of training do you tend to respond to better? What are you best lifts? What are your physical stats? How many years of experience do you have training hard? Do you have any injuries? What is your diet like?

    That is all I am going to say in this thread. Have fun...
    Be true to yourself and fuel your body with nothing less the highest quality supplements. Only available at TrueNutrition.com Use discount code: KSP945 to save 5% on your order!

    Stickies...just read the damn stickies...

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    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by mentalflex View Post
      Seriously?

      Please tell me this a joke....have you read the stickies?

      What kind of training programs have you done before? Which styles of training do you tend to respond to better? What are you best lifts? What are your physical stats? How many years of experience do you have training hard? Do you have any injuries? What is your diet like?

      That is all I am going to say in this thread. Have fun...
      I simply want to know if this different program format will allow for proper recovery and for quick strength and size leg gains. I know what works best for me and what my body can handle I am more interested in the general concept working not giving my life history.

      Comment


      • #4
        Too much.

        I honestly doubt you could recover fast enough if you are hitting them hard each time out.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by A-DOG View Post
          Too much.

          I honestly doubt you could recover fast enough if you are hitting them hard each time out.
          I have been using the supersquat (1 set, 20 rep max squat, three days a week) program for about two months and progressed from 225 lbs to 325 lbs. If I employed the DC leg training methodology would I continue to maintain this style of linear progression.

          I was under the impression that the rest periods were more for CNS recovery then muscle recovery.

          Thank, appreciate the input.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ChazDrysen View Post
            I have been using the supersquat (1 set, 20 rep max squat, three days a week) program for about two months and progressed from 225 lbs to 325 lbs. If I employed the DC leg training methodology would I continue to maintain this style of linear progression.

            I was under the impression that the rest periods were more for CNS recovery then muscle recovery.

            Thank, appreciate the input.
            muscle recovery and CNS recovery go hand and hand. If you don't let your muscles recover then eventually your CNS will be shot.

            I would ask you this question before answering about the linear progression: when you say you were doing 225lbs at the start, how many reps were you getting and on a scale from 1-10 how hard do you honestly think you were working? I've seen people make this type of progress in the past and it's partly due to the fact that they started out well below thier actual max poundage for that movement and rep count. Lets say you got 10 reps, were you totally struggling on the 10th rep or were you hitting 10 and stopping just cause you hit 10?

            alot of it is mental as well, if you are stuck in a rut at 225 and you finally put 235 on the bar and get it it's alot easier to move up, once you remove the mental block that is (I hope that made sense).

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by A-DOG View Post
              muscle recovery and CNS recovery go hand and hand. If you don't let your muscles recover then eventually your CNS will be shot.

              I would ask you this question before answering about the linear progression: when you say you were doing 225lbs at the start, how many reps were you getting and on a scale from 1-10 how hard do you honestly think you were working? I've seen people make this type of progress in the past and it's partly due to the fact that they started out well below thier actual max poundage for that movement and rep count. Lets say you got 10 reps, were you totally struggling on the 10th rep or were you hitting 10 and stopping just cause you hit 10?

              alot of it is mental as well, if you are stuck in a rut at 225 and you finally put 235 on the bar and get it it's alot easier to move up, once you remove the mental block that is (I hope that made sense).
              It certainly has gotten mentally harder, physical there is not much difference.

              I realize that I will eventually plateau, that is why I am interested in doing three different compound leg excises a week, opposed to simply traditional back squats three times a week.

              Also, do you think with a proper diet, supplementation, and sleep schedule your muscles and CNS could recover in 48 hours?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by steel1970
                Good God it's hard to have patience sometimes
                If you don't think this would be an effective concept please explain why.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ChazDrysen View Post
                  If you don't think this would be an effective concept please explain why.
                  It's self explanatory my man. Looks like an absolutely horrible idea go ahead and give it a shot, see how it treats you, but on paper it looks really bad.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by big ross View Post
                    It's self explanatory my man. Looks like an absolutely horrible idea go ahead and give it a shot, see how it treats you, but on paper it looks really bad.
                    Do you think it is a horrible idea from a recovery stand point?
                    My goals right now are strictly leg and core strength and size gain, do you think the best approach is to just stick to the original DC format?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ChazDrysen View Post
                      I simply want to know if this different program format will allow for proper recovery and for quick strength and size leg gains.
                      No, it would not.

                      Originally posted by ChazDrysen View Post
                      I have been using the supersquat (1 set, 20 rep max squat, three days a week) program for about two months and progressed from 225 lbs to 325 lbs. If I employed the DC leg training methodology would I continue to maintain this style of linear progression.

                      I was under the impression that the rest periods were more for CNS recovery then muscle recovery.

                      Thank, appreciate the input.
                      Yes, if you employed the DC training methodology but please note what you put in your OP is not DC.

                      Rest periods are for muscle and CV recovery moreso than CNS recovery.


                      Originally posted by ChazDrysen View Post
                      I realize that I will eventually plateau, that is why I am interested in doing three different compound leg excises a week, opposed to simply traditional back squats three times a week.

                      Also, do you think with a proper diet, supplementation, and sleep schedule your muscles and CNS could recover in 48 hours?
                      You will plateau faster in the way you describe.

                      Yes, it "could" recover. Will it be the optimal recovery to ensure growth is the question you want to ask.

                      Originally posted by ChazDrysen View Post
                      Do you think it is a horrible idea from a recovery stand point?
                      My goals right now are strictly leg and core strength and size gain, do you think the best approach is to just stick to the original DC format?
                      Yes, it is a horrible idea. If you have only progressed from 225 to 325 in squats (never did state whether this is a 1RM or 5RM) in the last year, you still have a lot of progress you could milk out of a basic linear program. Consider a 531 or intermediate 5x5 program.
                      FEAR THE FROG


                      Originally posted by John Broz
                      If your family was captured and you were told you needed to put 100 pounds onto your max squat within two months or your family would be executed, would you squat once per week? Something tells me that you'd start squatting every day. Other countries have this mindset. America does not.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JohnCaesar View Post
                        No, it would not.



                        Yes, if you employed the DC training methodology but please note what you put in your OP is not DC.

                        Rest periods are for muscle and CV recovery moreso than CNS recovery.




                        You will plateau faster in the way you describe.

                        Yes, it "could" recover. Will it be the optimal recovery to ensure growth is the question you want to ask.



                        Yes, it is a horrible idea. If you have only progressed from 225 to 325 in squats (never did state whether this is a 1RM or 5RM) in the last year, you still have a lot of progress you could milk out of a basic linear program. Consider a 531 or intermediate 5x5 program.
                        As I stated in the above post progressing from 225lbs to 325lbs was regarding a 1 set 20 repetition (deep) back squat.

                        Just to make sure I understand correctly when you say I will plateau faster do you mean that I will not be able to maintain a long enough blast, or that the weight I am lifting will plateau. Just to elaborate I would be doing three different compound leg exercises, in my suggested concept.

                        What I suggested is a general concept I also considered two compound leg exercises a week every week.

                        Please elaborated on CV recovery.

                        Thanks for the good advise.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ChazDrysen View Post
                          As I stated in the above post progressing from 225lbs to 325lbs was regarding a 1 set 20 repetition (deep) back squat.

                          Just to make sure I understand correctly when you say I will plateau faster do you mean that I will not be able to maintain a long enough blast, or that the weight I am lifting will plateau. Just to elaborate I would be doing three different compound leg exercises, in my suggested concept.

                          What I suggested is a general concept I also considered two compound leg exercises a week every week.

                          Please elaborated on CV recovery.

                          Thanks for the good advise.
                          You are correct, I lost sight of that statement. There are some points on this topic I would be happy to make if you would like, feel free to let me know.

                          You are more than likely going to experience issues with blast length and plateauing in weight progression. How are you going to know when to end your blast? What if one leg exercise falls off but the others continue to move? These are situations you run into when you use two different program methodologies combined.

                          CV recovery has to do with trying to catch up on oxygen demands for muscles. If you have truly done a 325 squat for 20 reps then by the end you should have been gasping for air. So in between sets, your lungs are going to be working to try and meet the oxygen deficit your muscles accrue during activity.

                          I know you are focused on improving leg size/strength and would very much like to focus on it. Is there a specific reason for this? Do you believe them to be out of balance with the rest of your physique currently?

                          So, my advice: If you want to emphasize legs to this point, do not try to create some type of masked beast hybrid program where train legs extra high frequency and use a normal frequency on other bodyparts. Realize if you want to emphasize something, you will need to limit the expenditure you put in other places. If you want to train legs using two or three different compound exercises and use a thrice weekly frequency, then you would be best served to place all other body parts in a maintenance phase.
                          FEAR THE FROG


                          Originally posted by John Broz
                          If your family was captured and you were told you needed to put 100 pounds onto your max squat within two months or your family would be executed, would you squat once per week? Something tells me that you'd start squatting every day. Other countries have this mindset. America does not.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JohnCaesar View Post
                            You are correct, I lost sight of that statement. There are some points on this topic I would be happy to make if you would like, feel free to let me know.

                            You are more than likely going to experience issues with blast length and plateauing in weight progression. How are you going to know when to end your blast? What if one leg exercise falls off but the others continue to move? These are situations you run into when you use two different program methodologies combined.

                            CV recovery has to do with trying to catch up on oxygen demands for muscles. If you have truly done a 325 squat for 20 reps then by the end you should have been gasping for air. So in between sets, your lungs are going to be working to try and meet the oxygen deficit your muscles accrue during activity.

                            I know you are focused on improving leg size/strength and would very much like to focus on it. Is there a specific reason for this? Do you believe them to be out of balance with the rest of your physique currently?

                            So, my advice: If you want to emphasize legs to this point, do not try to create some type of masked beast hybrid program where train legs extra high frequency and use a normal frequency on other bodyparts. Realize if you want to emphasize something, you will need to limit the expenditure you put in other places. If you want to train legs using two or three different compound exercises and use a thrice weekly frequency, then you would be best served to place all other body parts in a maintenance phase.
                            Your comments are tremendously helpful thank you.

                            Just to clarify, if I implemented the DC leg training methodology (heavy working set of 4-8 reps, fallowed by a widowmaker) 2 or 3 times a week are you suggesting that CV recovery would not allow me to optimally perform more exercises (including rest pause sets) of different muscle groups on the same day .... or would I not be able to optimally perform the same type to leg training 2 to 3 times a week.

                            Also assuming I wanted to focus on leg training how much progressive training of other muscle groups would I have to cut out of my workout program to allow for 3 optimally performed leg training days a week. If you feel that is not possible, I pose the similar question regarding 2 optimally performed leg training days a week. (Please keep in blast length when answering this question)

                            The reason I am so interested in this type of programming is that I want the strongest legs possible, and I also feel that compound leg exercises build the best possible overall body strength and thickness. The reason I feel this way is that I got fantastic results from the supersquat program (1 set 20 rep max deep squat, 3 times a week) in a very short time.

                            Thank you again for your help, and please excuse my ignorance regarding CV recovery

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Chaz,

                              Guys (and yourself) are getting into program details too soon... important questions regarding recovery time that must be answered first:

                              1) How old are you? (a 25 yo is a far different animal than an old fart like me)

                              2) Natural or not?

                              FWIW, hard leg work three times a week would kill me. Zero chance of progress. YMMV.
                              I've won on so many levels already I don't even care how I do at the show. I just wanna look damn good!!

                              --Steel

                              Muscles don't know how old they are.

                              Treat them like they are old and eat soup... and they will be.

                              Train 'em hard and feed them like a stud... and they will be.

                              So will you.


                              Journal

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