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  • 2 SS + WM for quads?

    I have seen people mention this before.
    Having 2 sets for quads and then a widow maker after it.

    People that have done this, have you seen an increase in strength...or only mass?

  • #2
    Originally posted by db2000 View Post
    I have seen people mention this before.
    Having 2 sets for quads and then a widow maker after it.

    People that have done this, have you seen an increase in strength...or only mass?
    With DC training, if you're not seeing an increase in strength, then something is changed, starting first with an exercise.

    If someone were not getting stronger with 2 straight sets and a WM on quad exercises in general, I'd suspect over training and drop down to 1 SS plus the WM.

    Strength and mass go hand in hand with DC training. If you're following the program, you're not going to be in a situation where your strength has stalled long enough to see size increases (and I highly doubt that would happen, at least for very long, when training this way).

    -Scott
    The Book Has Arrived!
    The Book Has Arrived!

    Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


    www.TrueNutrition.com

    2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
    2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
    2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks,
      I have come over from powerlifting to gain more muscle mass. I feel I have entered DC training with a bigger strength base than most (although I have so much more room to get stronger!)

      My main goal is muscle mass, but I still want strength to go along with it.

      My squat fell behind when doing strongman shows, deadlift comps and single ply powerlifting comps (through my own fault and bad training choices)

      Starting DC I went with the 1 quad SS + a widow maker. This was to get used to the program (I am still really only just starting as I am 1/2 way through my first blast)

      I was worried about changing to 2 SS and a WM and it being more for 'advanced' trainers and geared towards more hypertrophy.

      Maybe I might wait till the end of the blast before I add another set?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by db2000 View Post
        Thanks,
        I have come over from powerlifting to gain more muscle mass. I feel I have entered DC training with a bigger strength base than most (although I have so much more room to get stronger!)

        My main goal is muscle mass, but I still want strength to go along with it.

        My squat fell behind when doing strongman shows, deadlift comps and single ply powerlifting comps (through my own fault and bad training choices)

        Starting DC I went with the 1 quad SS + a widow maker. This was to get used to the program (I am still really only just starting as I am 1/2 way through my first blast)

        I was worried about changing to 2 SS and a WM and it being more for 'advanced' trainers and geared towards more hypertrophy.

        Maybe I might wait till the end of the blast before I add another set?
        DB,

        My first question would be what kind of weights are you moving around.

        If you've inched your squat or whatever lifts up over the years and have not maxed out your strength to a certain degree there I would consider this:

        -Is your weight moving up?... If so, you're likely to get stronger and thus bigger.

        -You may need to find different exercises that you can progress on that focus the stress on the target muscles you're trying to train. Remember that, for instance, squatting for PL'ing or strongman isn't about trying to make your quad the focus of the exercise - it's about engaging the most muscle you can, with good form, to move the most weight possible.

        If I were working with you, I'd not have you add an extra SS for quads right now, but would make sure your exercises are stimulating the quads, either by adjusting squat form and/or by picking other exercises to do.

        Having the mindset of an PL'er or strongman is AWESOME for DC Training, but that needs to be applied to training for bodybuilding which is about progressively stimulating the muscle (by moving heavier weights), rather than progressively moving heavier weights (and simply assuming the muscle will be stimulated).

        -Scott
        The Book Has Arrived!
        The Book Has Arrived!

        Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


        www.TrueNutrition.com

        2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
        2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
        2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

        Comment


        • #5
          I certainly have a lot of strength left to build!

          Last week was back squat 500x7 and then 300x18(WM)

          I have taken the approach that 'X' exercise is for 'Y' muscle instead of just squatting to squat (if that makes sense). I have changed foot placement and back angles to suit the muscle group at hand.

          It seems to be working so far (in terms of growth and DOMS....the right bits are getting sore). I have started learning how to have that mind muscle connection too (which I never needed before!)

          Thanks for all your help




          Originally posted by homonunculus View Post
          DB,

          My first question would be what kind of weights are you moving around.

          If you've inched your squat or whatever lifts up over the years and have not maxed out your strength to a certain degree there I would consider this:

          -Is your weight moving up?... If so, you're likely to get stronger and thus bigger.

          -You may need to find different exercises that you can progress on that focus the stress on the target muscles you're trying to train. Remember that, for instance, squatting for PL'ing or strongman isn't about trying to make your quad the focus of the exercise - it's about engaging the most muscle you can, with good form, to move the most weight possible.

          If I were working with you, I'd not have you add an extra SS for quads right now, but would make sure your exercises are stimulating the quads, either by adjusting squat form and/or by picking other exercises to do.

          Having the mindset of an PL'er or strongman is AWESOME for DC Training, but that needs to be applied to training for bodybuilding which is about progressively stimulating the muscle (by moving heavier weights), rather than progressively moving heavier weights (and simply assuming the muscle will be stimulated).

          -Scott

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by db2000 View Post
            I certainly have a lot of strength left to build!

            Last week was back squat 500x7 and then 300x18(WM)

            I have taken the approach that 'X' exercise is for 'Y' muscle instead of just squatting to squat (if that makes sense). I have changed foot placement and back angles to suit the muscle group at hand.

            It seems to be working so far (in terms of growth and DOMS....the right bits are getting sore). I have started learning how to have that mind muscle connection too (which I never needed before!)

            Thanks for all your help
            DB,

            You're welcome. Sounds like your work is cut out for you! Tear it up!

            -S
            The Book Has Arrived!
            The Book Has Arrived!

            Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


            www.TrueNutrition.com

            2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
            2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
            2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

            Comment


            • #7
              For a long time I have been considering the 2 ss + wm for quads. However I am a little concerned it will affect my widowmaker set. Could anyone who have made the switch tell me if it affected your widowmaker set?.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by dcwannabee View Post
                For a long time I have been considering the 2 ss + wm for quads. However I am a little concerned it will affect my widowmaker set. Could anyone who have made the switch tell me if it affected your widowmaker set?.
                A few thoughts here:

                -Why would that matter if you're still progressing on each set?... (I'm asssuming you're resting adequately between sets, i.e., not still huffing and puffing from the previous SS when starting your WM.)

                -You would expect it to, just like if you did multiple sets of 10, each one to failure. All things being equal, the reps will drop set by set.

                -IMO, the mindset that is best suited for DC training isn't one that is concerned about losing a few reps, but rather one that's gonna take on that challenge and say "[email protected]# what's supposed to happen, I'm not gonna lose a damn rep, no matter what." Do with that what you will, as that statement is neither a suggestion to do a 2nd straight set nor is it explicitly one to NOT do a 2nd set. Food for thought.

                -S
                The Book Has Arrived!
                The Book Has Arrived!

                Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


                www.TrueNutrition.com

                2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
                2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
                2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks for posting Homonunculus. I am a big fan of yours, and whenever You post directly to me I get a bit starstruck. Everything You wrote in your post makes sense, and I have properbly been looking at that extra set the wrong way.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by dcwannabee View Post
                    Thanks for posting Homonunculus. I am a big fan of yours, and whenever You post directly to me I get a bit starstruck. Everything You wrote in your post makes sense, and I have properbly been looking at that extra set the wrong way.
                    Just another guy behind a keyboard over here, DCWB, but I do appreciate the compliment.

                    (Wouldn't it be hilarious if each time you posted, a snapshot of how you look in that very moment would be taken by a webcam. I'd have bed head and CPAP face. Highly fan worthy. )

                    I'm glad to help out.

                    -S
                    The Book Has Arrived!
                    The Book Has Arrived!

                    Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


                    www.TrueNutrition.com

                    2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
                    2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
                    2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

                    Comment

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