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  • laying it bare, after advice on everything...

    Ok, so first things first, my stats
    Age: 24
    Height: 6’5”
    Weight: 220
    Body fat: 16% - at a guess.

    I have by no means a good physique which is probably obvious from my stats. And I am no means a heavy lifter. Im posting on this board as this is the most professional and helpful forum I have ever found. Iv read through a lot of posts and I don’t think I have found a bad one. so im here after some serious help on diet and training. I know dc isn’t meant for me, but I tried a short blast. 5 weeks…….and wow! It was amazing! Have definitely never enjoyed my training as much as I have the past 5 weeks.
    Now obviously you guys are pro’s and have been doing this for years and years so what you say, goes.
    Im basically after as much help as you guys are willing to offer. i want to be bigger, a lot bigger. but I also want to be leaner, a lot leaner. (obviously)

    a lean 250 would be amazing.
    is it best to lean down now and then work towards gaining lean mass to reach 250? or just get above 250 then lean down?

    now iv been looking into diet, i was going to have high and low carb days, high days - carbs 460g, protein 370g and fat 30g, low days carbs 50g, protein 370g and fat 60g. using that as a starting point i would then adjust my calories accordingly. so if i was losing fat but all my lifts were still going up i would stick with this diet until i was either lean enough to begin tweaking fat or carb levels to get me adding lean mass or if i wasnt losing fat intruduce am cardio and or reduce carbs on training days.
    high carb days being my lifting days and low carb days when only doing hiit or rest days. is that a shoddy approach?


    and should i continue with dc training (which i have loved doing) or should i use another plan?
    i was using this plan:
    A
    incline bench
    military press
    dips
    closegrip pd
    deadlifts

    B
    barbell curls
    reverse grip 1 arm cable curls
    leg press toe press
    leg curl
    squat

    A2
    low incline bench
    db press
    close grip bench press
    pull ups
    t-bar rows

    B2
    Preacher curls
    hammer curls
    seated calf raise
    SLDL
    leg press

    A3
    decline bench
    seated military press
    skull crushers
    chins
    barbell bent over row

    B3
    dumbbell curls
    pinwheel curls
    calf raise
    leg curls
    squat

    so basically. opinions on training and diet would be great. i know im very amatuer and a definite beginner but im really passionate about changing my physique for the better and would like as much genuine help as possible.
    thanks in advance guys and i hope i dont piss anyone off.
    sorry if this is vague, i will answer any questions asked.

  • #2
    You admit you are a beginner, so...

    Don't try to train DC. Far more routes for you to exhaust before you jump into DC. Do some more reading around the Dogg Pound and the Puppy Pound if you are unsure as to why I am telling you to avoid it.

    Secondly, I would tell you to get out of the mindset of cutting and bulking. You want to put on muscle while minimizing fat gain, and perhaps even losing some fat? Good...try to do that ALL THE TIME. Eat and train like you wanna be a 300lb bodybuilder, but do cardio, supplelement, and follow carb cutoffs like someone who is shredded. Don't get me wrong, I feel there is a time and place to push the weight when trying to put size, you just have to know where you feel comfortable walking around at...some guys want abs all the time, some guys don't give a shit, but it's usally the guys who don't give a shit that end up being mountains in the end.

    Thirdly, search the thread "Diet" by Massive G. Read that and many of your dietary questions will be answered.

    Fourth, I highly suggest started a strength oriented program (I.E. 5X5, or another system that releys on the big lifts multiple times a week with some assistance work thrown in--if you're not squatting, deadlifting, or heavy pressing each and every time you are in the gym, than you need to reevaluate your program. That's the meat and potatoes of putting on substantial size: LIFTING THE MOST WEIGHT YOU CAN, CONSISTENTLY. More things come into play, but take advantageous of being a beginner and develop good technique and habits now...along with all the newbie gains.

    Lastly, no matter what you choose to do, just be consistent. You want a lean 250lbs physique? So, from your given history, you are a pretty soft 220 at a tall as shit 6'5''. Lets do the math: that's a minimum of 30lbs of muscle you have to put on, but if you wanna be leaner than you are now, you're looking anywhere from 40-60lbs if I am being honest to get the physique you probably want...you think that comes easy? HELL NO. It takes time. What I am saying is...know that this is a sprint and marathon wrapped up into one: the intensity of a sprint, with the duration of a marathon. Don't think in terms of weeks or days when gauging progress: Think in terms of MONTHS or YEARS. That's the truth.

    I'd be happy to help with any specific questions you have...but what you asked can be found answered in great detail by searching the forums and reading and reading some more.

    Hope that helps. Welcome to IM.

    2012 EUP's Mission Submission II
    -1st SuperHeavy Gi
    2012 Hayastan Grappling Challenge New York
    -1st Heavyweight Gi
    2011 Slippery Rock Open Collegiate Championships, 4th-Open Heavyweight, 220lbs
    2008 NGA Pittsburgh Bodybuilding Championships, 2nd-Open Juniors, 175lbs




    Help me, help you! To get a great discount from TrueNutrition just type in MCS722 in the code box when you check out!


    New pursuit: competitive grappling, and enjoying my life

    Comment


    • #3
      This is awesome advice. Great post Lock

      Comment


      • #4
        thank you very much lock, was kinda hoping someone like you commented on this. read a fair few posts by yourself and its clear you know exactly what your talking about. ill read some more posts, definitely. am i ok to turn this thread into a log or do i have to use a specific part of the site to do that?

        definitely going to take a fair few years to get to where i want to be but im definitely looking forward to the journey!
        i used 5/3/1 for a while with BBB. do you think i should go back to that or just do a ABA style 5x5?
        really appreciate your help on this!

        Comment


        • #5
          also, do mind me asking how your training developed from beginning to present day? (sorry if thats frowned upon, in which case feel free to tell me where to go)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by height_11 View Post
            thank you very much lock, was kinda hoping someone like you commented on this. read a fair few posts by yourself and its clear you know exactly what your talking about. ill read some more posts, definitely. am i ok to turn this thread into a log or do i have to use a specific part of the site to do that?

            definitely going to take a fair few years to get to where i want to be but im definitely looking forward to the journey!
            i used 5/3/1 for a while with BBB. do you think i should go back to that or just do a ABA style 5x5?
            really appreciate your help on this!
            not Lock but pick one that you enjoy and ride it out for the next year.
            Overtraining should be one of the lowest concerns. You should focus on optimal training.
            -John Ceasar

            Comment


            • #7
              Are you 6'5" or 65" tall?
              You're perfect, yes it's true. But without me...you're only you.

              Comment


              • #8
                I am 6'5" too. I am 230 at probably 12-13% BF and I am not even close to where I want to be, physique wise. At your height, it will take a ton of patience and persistence to get the physique you desire. I was 24 when I started too...but I was 175 lbs or so, so you will probably get there faster than me. I would drop your body fat down to 10% or so before started to try to gain weight.

                A year ago, I did 5/3/1 with bodybuilding type assistance...I made my best gains with that.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by SkinnyMike42 View Post
                  I am 6'5" too. I am 230 at probably 12-13% BF and I am not even close to where I want to be, physique wise. At your height, it will take a ton of patience and persistence to get the physique you desire. I was 24 when I started too...but I was 175 lbs or so, so you will probably get there faster than me. I would drop your body fat down to 10% or so before started to try to gain weight.

                  A year ago, I did 5/3/1 with bodybuilding type assistance...I made my best gains with that.
                  thank for the comments dude.
                  do you mind me asking how you ran your assistance work for 5/3/1, i must admit i do always get good gains when i train 5/3/1.
                  i did experiment once with doing 6 weeks of 5x10 assistance and then the following 6 weeks at 8x4. this seemed to actually work pretty well. but then i stumbled across dc.

                  so my assistance looked like this
                  bench day
                  incline db
                  dips
                  pronated fly - 3x10 for this

                  deadlift day
                  lat pulldown
                  chins
                  kroc rows

                  ohp
                  seated db press
                  lat raise
                  rear dekt fly

                  squat day
                  leg press
                  lying hamstring curl
                  calf raise

                  opinions on this as well?

                  again i really appreciate the constructive critisism guys.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rageblanket View Post
                    are you 6'5" or 65" tall?
                    6'5"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by height_11 View Post
                      thank for the comments dude.
                      do you mind me asking how you ran your assistance work for 5/3/1, i must admit i do always get good gains when i train 5/3/1.
                      i did experiment once with doing 6 weeks of 5x10 assistance and then the following 6 weeks at 8x4. this seemed to actually work pretty well. but then i stumbled across dc.

                      so my assistance looked like this
                      bench day
                      incline db
                      dips
                      pronated fly - 3x10 for this

                      deadlift day
                      lat pulldown
                      chins
                      kroc rows

                      ohp
                      seated db press
                      lat raise
                      rear dekt fly

                      squat day
                      leg press
                      lying hamstring curl
                      calf raise

                      opinions on this as well?

                      again i really appreciate the constructive critisism guys.
                      I don't love flys or doubling up on shoulder presses in the same day, but aside from that it looks pretty good.
                      You're perfect, yes it's true. But without me...you're only you.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        also, is hitting body parts twice a week a possibility for me? obviously not on 5/3/1 but an other programme? i did quite like that aspect of dc.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by RageBlanket View Post
                          I don't love flys or doubling up on shoulder presses in the same day, but aside from that it looks pretty good.
                          is this based on the fact flys cant really be done with a heavy load like pressing can?
                          would you replace them with anything or just remove them and stick with incline db and dips?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by height_11 View Post
                            thank you very much lock, was kinda hoping someone like you commented on this. read a fair few posts by yourself and its clear you know exactly what your talking about. ill read some more posts, definitely. am i ok to turn this thread into a log or do i have to use a specific part of the site to do that?

                            definitely going to take a fair few years to get to where i want to be but im definitely looking forward to the journey!
                            i used 5/3/1 for a while with BBB. do you think i should go back to that or just do a ABA style 5x5?


                            really appreciate your help on this!
                            If you want to start a log (something I highly suggest), go to intense muscle main discussion forums>journals and start one there.

                            I suggest picking a routine that you will like, and run it into the ground. I did a 5x5 for about 2-3 years back in the day, and loved it. I miled it for all it was worth.


                            Originally posted by height_11 View Post
                            also, is hitting body parts twice a week a possibility for me? obviously not on 5/3/1 but an other programme? i did quite like that aspect of dc.
                            You can do any program you want and set it up tailored just for you. As long as basic principles of program planning are in place, it usually works out well.

                            You could try a push/pull/legs setup.

                            Mon-Push
                            Tues-Pull
                            Wed-Off
                            Thurs-Legs
                            Fir-Push
                            Sat-off
                            Sun-Off
                            Monday-Pull
                            Tues-Legs
                            Wed-off
                            Thurs-Push
                            FRI- Pull
                            Sat-off
                            Sun-off

                            and it just keeps cycling like that so every week you hit one group of parts twice, and the next week you hit another twice, and the third week you hit the last one twice and the cycle repeats.

                            OR, utilize a 5x5, where you train 3 days a week, and everyday you are gonna be doing a combination of squats, deads, ohp's, bb rows, and bench. I love Madcow's 5x5. Throw in the accessory work, and you can ride that for the long haul. I'm talking minimum of a year.

                            lots and lots of options out there. Just go with something and stick with it for the long haul if it is working at all for you.

                            Hell, you could even set up a traditional bodybuilding split and see where that gets you..though I highly recommend something where you are engaging in the big 3 lifts on a routine basis.

                            2012 EUP's Mission Submission II
                            -1st SuperHeavy Gi
                            2012 Hayastan Grappling Challenge New York
                            -1st Heavyweight Gi
                            2011 Slippery Rock Open Collegiate Championships, 4th-Open Heavyweight, 220lbs
                            2008 NGA Pittsburgh Bodybuilding Championships, 2nd-Open Juniors, 175lbs




                            Help me, help you! To get a great discount from TrueNutrition just type in MCS722 in the code box when you check out!


                            New pursuit: competitive grappling, and enjoying my life

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              You can do any program you want and set it up tailored just for you. As long as basic principles of program planning are in place, it usually works out well.

                              You could try a push/pull/legs setup.

                              Mon-Push
                              Tues-Pull
                              Wed-Off
                              Thurs-Legs
                              Fir-Push
                              Sat-off
                              Sun-Off
                              Monday-Pull
                              Tues-Legs
                              Wed-off
                              Thurs-Push
                              FRI- Pull
                              Sat-off
                              Sun-off

                              and it just keeps cycling like that so every week you hit one group of parts twice, and the next week you hit another twice, and the third week you hit the last one twice and the cycle repeats.

                              I like that a lot! Honestly thanks so much for your help! Ill draw up a push pull legs tonight and post it back on here.

                              Definitely going to start a log as well!
                              Should I rotate rep ranges or just stick to one until Iv bled it dry and then switch. Assuming your opinion is lower rep range and heavy weights? Stick to straight sets or ramp? Take it I should leave rest pause for dc?

                              Sorry for all the questions, believe it or not I have read a lot, just think iv read so much and experienced so little, that iv got a bit lost!if that makes sense.

                              Comment

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