big protein meals? and carbs/meal

[greensoup]

i'm a person who likes and can stick to bigger meals over small, frequent meals. now for the 30g protein digested / meal nonsense, surely you big guys do not believe in that. however, if my total meals remains low, if i eat 100g protein in a meal, will there be negative effects (wasted protein, destruction of the earth, etc)?


and tbh i've been avoiding carbs for too long thanks to internet articles. i'd like to add them back in for some good energy to build muscle.

how many carbs / sitting is reasonable? if i do 2 p/c meals @ 50g carb ea (1cup oats) i only get to 100g total carbs, which is measly. is it normal/good to push that to 100g carb per meal (VERY filling with oats tho, may need another source)?

i've gotten used to eating a lot of pro/fat meals and limiting carbs, so i can see my total fat intake per day at 100-150g consistently.

[liftweights]

"i'm a person who likes and can stick to bigger meals over small, frequent meals. now for the 30g protein digested / meal nonsense, surely you big guys do not believe in that. however, if my total meals remains low, if i eat 100g protein in a meal, will there be negative effects (wasted protein, destruction of the earth, etc)?"

The whole world will blow up. Dont do it.

[Lock it Up]

:overana:

You asking for portion sizes is going to get you no where. What might be reasonable to you, might seem completely ridiculous to me, and vice versa. Also, there's multiple way to do things when it comes to diet and training...it's up to you to pick what information to utilize.

There is plenty of good info all around this very site...your questions are general enough to be answered through some searching.

I'll give you a head start though:

http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=39213&highlight=diet

Read and enjoy. Draw some conclusions for yourself. Then proceed to read more.

[Ashers]

stop crapping your pants and eat.

[darkguitars2000]

Read the thread Lock posted for starts, come up with a diet and come back and let everyone critique/ask questions.

[greensoup]

thanks guys, good thread to read through. i see most people there go with the high-frequency meals and do not advise low-carb for gaining. since i've been used to the low-carb gibberish for a long time now, i need to change. also, i find myself eating more consistently when i can save time eating fewer but larger meals.

here are some sample days with meals separated by the ugly black paint, please feel free to offer suggestions and corrections or any comments regarding what it is missing or what it has too much of. thanks!

nonworkout:


workout:


for stats, i am 5'9, 170, ~13-15% BF, training hard but have a big weakness in diet that i want to get handled now. i'd like to move toward 185-190 while keeping bf% low and under 15% within half a year.

thanks again.

[Michael Travis]

Am I missing something or is your only whole food meal on workout days, tuna, cottage cheese, another kind of cheese and olive oil? Just want to clarify.

Disregard, looks like you took a screen shot, I can see the macro count now...

[greensoup]

yes sorry about that, the meals are actually the same with the addition of the 2 PWO meals added, though screenshots do not work well when you need to scroll to see the rest.

[steel1970]

I think that most here would tell you that if you want to put on size, then your protein needs to be HIGH and your carbs will prob need to be as high as you can go without putting on too much fat....like Lock said, it's all very different on a person to person basis. Some guys may get fat on 200g of carbs a day, while others can stay lean at 500g. You need to figure out which guy you are and adjust accordingly....OR, you could hire an expert to take the guess work out of it for you, say, like, maybe Skip?! Lol

[greensoup]

good point. i'll play around and weigh myself several times a week to see what's going on

[Lock it Up]

for stats, i am 5'9, 170, ~13-15% BF, training hard but have a big weakness in diet that i want to get handled now. i'd like to move toward 185-190 while keeping bf% low and under 15% within half a year.
.

Ok, I am feeling generous today, and I am going to give you a breakdown on what I WOULD DO, if I were you (But not knowing anything regarding your tolerances, metabolism, needs, etc).

Based on your stats:

Aim for 250-350g of protein daily
-This will have to be played with, and I am more on the school of thought of doing higher protein when gaining. I.E. I'd shoot for 2g of protein/lb of lean body weight

Aim for around 400g of carbs on training days, and about half that on non training days.
-Again, this is going to have to be adjusted based on HOW YOU RESPOND. Get your carbs in only before your workouts , and Immediately after. If I were you, I'd eat 100g 1st meal of the day, 50g in my pre shake, 50g in my post shake, and 100g in my post workout whole food meal. Sources of solid carbs: Potatoes, yams, oats, rice, waxy maize/vitargo/dextrose (powo)

Try to structure your carbs around your workouts.

The remainder of your meals...aim for ~15-20g of fats.
-That means, after your post workout whole food meal, then next meal and the meals until bed will be pro/fat. Sources should be EVOO, almonds/nuts, avacado, indirectly come from red meat.


That's the bare bones of it, as to how I would do things If I had your stats, knowing what I know now. Many guys over eat carbs and under eat protein and fat, IMO.

That's what I personally do.

PS. Don't count more than one macro from one food source.
For example, if you have a meal of chicken, rice, and veggies...you'd say chicken is your pro, rice is your carbs, and the veggies are simply filler. Count only protein from chicken, and count only carbs from rice. Guys like to count protein from oats and stuff like that, but I find it much more efficient to use a food as a macro source, and only count one macro from it, as opposed to counting calories.

This is a very quick response, and is very general...but It's just what popped into my head first.

Hope that all helps

Edit: Realized I fudged the numbers with the carb recommendation, but I hope you get my drift.

[greensoup]

thanks for the help Lock
im going to put up a pic of your ava for motivation. in my bathroom.

@fudged carbs, fixed now? ill play around with the carb #s regardless and see how i respond

@not counting more than 1 macro per food. never tried this before, my fitday pics will no longer serve me any good.

@carbs/pro
did a quick calculation: look correct?
training day: 400carb/~300pro/20fat (did i misinterpret this?) = ~3000 calories
non training day: 200carb/~300pro/20fat = ~2200 calories
considering im going to be not counting a lot of submacros from food, this could be up 500 cals or so. i'll have to get used to this much higher volume of eating

[Lock it Up]

thanks for the help Lock
im going to put up a pic of your ava for motivation. in my bathroom.

Haha, well thanks for that I'm flattered...and I'll wait for one of these wise asses to make a joke about G4P...

@fudged carbs, fixed now? ill play around with the carb #s regardless and see how i respond

I didn't fix the exact numbers, but 400g total is what I would shoot for.

@not counting more than 1 macro per food. never tried this before, my fitday pics will no longer serve me any good.

The concept of fitday is nice, but what guys don't take into account is that how the protein actually metabolizes in the body when you eat it from meats, as compared to something like peanut butter...well it's different. The amino acid profile in meats is a COMPLETE amino profile, and from plant sources they are incomplete. Ever hear of vegetarian athletes eating protein form more than one type of source in a lot of meals? That's because when you get it from plants, your not getting a complete protein. There's arguments over some plant sources being "complete" protein sources, but I apply what is for certain, and time tested...not theories of "could bes"

@carbs/pro
did a quick calculation: look correct?
training day: 400carb/~300pro/20fat (did i misinterpret this?) = ~3000 calories
non training day: 200carb/~300pro/20fat = ~2200 calories

I meant 15-20g of fat PER PRO/FAT meal, not 20g total...that's nothing LOL. So, if you eat 4 pro/fat meals in a day, you'll be eating somewhere in the neighborhood of 60-100g fat daily.


considering im going to be not counting a lot of submacros from food, this could be up 500 cals or so. i'll have to get used to this much higher volume of eating

I'm in red. ^^

It's easy. Just know going into a meal "Okay I wanna hit X amount of protein, and X amounts of carbs. So, that means I need this much (Insert your animal meat, egg, protein poweder here), and this much (insert your direct carb source here) and I will eat some veggies too".

Big differences in eating for health/fitness and eating to turn your body into a blast furnace capable of slinging heavy slag and still holding some semblance of leanness...

[greensoup]

if only i knew what g4p was.

where did you get 400/200 carbs? i ask because I'd like to learn and then fix stuff myself as my weight/training changes. i've heard stuff like 1-2g pro/lb, is there something similar for carbs or is this just based off experience?

i'm also trying to visualize how i'd adjust my diet to fit these macros and am stuck. i'd get ~120g carbs PWO leaving me with ~280g carbs left. if i were to have 4 whole food meals and leave 2 for pro/fat, i'd need 140 carb/meal (dont think i can do 280 in 1 meal!)
thus, i'd only have 40g fat for my 2 pro/fat meals. enough, or too low?

i'm very close to giving myself the overanalyzer alert emoticon

thanks again for your help.

[Lock it Up]

if only i knew what g4p was.

where did you get 400/200 carbs? i ask because I'd like to learn and then fix stuff myself as my weight/training changes. i've heard stuff like 1-2g pro/lb, is there something similar for carbs or is this just based off experience?

i'm also trying to visualize how i'd adjust my diet to fit these macros and am stuck. i'd get ~120g carbs PWO leaving me with ~280g carbs left. if i were to have 4 whole food meals and leave 2 for pro/fat, i'd need 140 carb/meal (dont think i can do 280 in 1 meal!)
thus, i'd only have 40g fat for my 2 pro/fat meals. enough, or too low?

i'm very close to giving myself the overanalyzer alert emoticon

thanks again for your help.

Warning, most of the following is gonna not be straightforward. I feel like I am starting to spoonfeed, when you can educate yourself easily by reading everything here at IM on the subject. So in an effort to be a little abstract with my wording....

I got the amounts I reccomended to you as far as carbs based soley on experience, from knowing how much I eat, and from other's diets that I know the ins and outs of. It's a educated guess in all honesty. In all seriousness, if anyone ever tells you they "KNOW" the exact amount of anything someone needs to grow based soley on hearing their "stats" and maybe seeing a pic of him and some brief history (aka going in blind)

they are either:

Spitting you lines to make you believe them, for whatever reason.

OR

They are simply regurgitating info from someone that is likely trying to do the former.

They can't possibly tell you what is gonna do the trick for you right away without working with you for while, but...

...what they can do is call from previous experience from both their own experience/knowledge/education or from intimate knowledge and understanding of someone else's. How do you think I believe that it is most efficient to do things the way I do them? By learning, asking questions, applying that info to ME, and ADAPTING as needed to achieve my desired effect. Think of it as...common sense? LOL.

What I AM TRYING to say(probably pretty poorly) is, there are plenty of ways to manipulate your body, and many routes you can take to explore all those ways....and nothing is set in stone.

Like I've said, I don't count anything but protein when trying to pack on weight. Everything else I just know values of (like g per serving) of most foods just form educating myself and learning from using things over and over. I know at what carb levels I start to get fat, and I know where I need to get down to to begin a diet....I eat in between those levels, closer to that threshold of fat gain (or at least I try to). soo...

From what I have seen in a lot of people, I reccomend 400g for you.

As far as how you want to get that amount of carbs in is up to you. I like big portions at breakfast, and big portions in my after workout meal. Like 3 cups of oats at breakfast, or 32oz yams wouldn't be something out of the ordinary daily. Or hell make it better a few double cheesburgers and a shake! . See, more than one way to do things!