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  • zoot
    replied
    It's just me being uncomfortable with them both being incline. I have preached against high volume exercises for the sake of hitting the muscle group from all angles possible in other forums...yet when it comes down to it, I kind of do want that 1 different angle.

    I mean different angles makes more sense with low volume than it does with high volume in my eyes. You are doing such a low volume that you would want to work the muscle as differently as possible each workout, right?

    And I know I am wayyyyy overthinking it, it's a bad habit of mine, so don't worry about it. You aren't being mean. I overthink everything. But lol I think it's time for me to just shut up and take the advice lol. I asked for advice and I got it, so idk why I'm still debating.
    Last edited by zoot; 05-01-2011, 06:43 PM.

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  • Michael Travis
    replied
    I dont want to seem mean, but I agree with Steel. I think you are over thinking and worrying too much about "angles".. Just move the weight, progress, eat, etc. KIS, I'll leave out the second S, but really, think about the purpose of DC. To get big. And strong. Do you think you will get bigger going from 50 to 80 lb dumbbell flyes, or from Hammer Strength press starting with 3 and going to 5 plates per side? Or from doing Smith Incline, going from 225 to 315 for RP of 11-15? If you can get there you will have a chest that looks like it..

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  • steel1970
    replied
    You mean to tell me that you think incline barbell and incline smith or incline dumbell are too similar to have in the same blast? Or incline or decline Hammer? If that's the case, then 75% of people doing DC are doing it wrong. Look thru some guys' journals and see if you see 2 incline movements. Close grip bench and rev grip bench are similar, but a lot of people do them in a blast. It doesn't matter what it is, as long as you can continue to progress, and do it safely. It seems like you are trying to hit your muscles from different "angles", and that isn't necessary...do movements that you can do big weight on and progress...if you are doing all incline movements, it may not seem ideal to you, but it is more ideal than a fly or cable shit...I'm not trying to argue with you, but you just seem like you are hell bent on the cables or flies...look at Lock's journal or Sammich's or Fade's if he has workouts posted. I'm sure you will find some layout that works...

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  • zoot
    replied
    Originally posted by steel1970 View Post
    Like someone else mentioned, any Hammer chest press machine, some other reg chest machines that you can progress on (not peck deck) another incline movement, etc....do you only know of 3 exercises for your chest? Look around the gym and pick a pressing movement you feel you can progress on, its not that hard bro. Every gym just about has at least ONE Hammer chest press or other decent machine...pick one and get to it...
    It isn't the problem of not knowing enough exercises or not having the machines, I just dont see the point of going from incline BB to incline hammer when I could go from incline BB to decline BB.

    The movements are so similar that I don't see them as 2 completely different things.

    That is why I am asking for ideas. It isn't that I don't know enough exercises to fill my list, it is that I want ideas that maybe I haven't thought of.

    That is why I only had 2 shoulder exercises, hell I couldve had all 3 filled up, but because I asked I got a better exercise (push press) than what I would've had otherwise.

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  • steel1970
    replied
    Like someone else mentioned, any Hammer chest press machine, some other reg chest machines that you can progress on (not peck deck) another incline movement, etc....do you only know of 3 exercises for your chest? Look around the gym and pick a pressing movement you feel you can progress on, its not that hard bro. Every gym just about has at least ONE Hammer chest press or other decent machine...pick one and get to it...

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  • zoot
    replied
    Well then what can I do instead that is NOT flat bench?

    Flat destroys my shoulders as I have had tendon problems with my front delt and supraspinatus...My theory is that it's because my arms are somewhat short (I'm not a tall guy) I have to press/roll my shoulders forward just to get the bar off the rack and that puts too much strain on those areas...

    idk. just a theory...

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  • Carlito Gambino
    replied
    I've never done DC myself but I've read shittons of posts on it and Dante advises against using flies/lateral raises/kickbacks whatever, "small" exercises if you will, because the progression rate is much smaller. You could maybe hypothetically jump from a 30lb fly to an 80lb one but that's still peanuts compared to the muscle you'll gain from a 220lb decline bench to a 330 one.

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  • steel1970
    replied
    Well, cable crossovers are def not a recommended DC movement, maybe for a chest widow, but I don't know. Presses, not flies and cables, are gonna allow you to progress and move big weights in the end. That is the key...I really doubt you will progress much with flies or ANY cable movement for chest...just my opinion...

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  • zoot
    replied
    Originally posted by steel1970 View Post
    I wouldn't keep the flat db fly personally. If I was gonna do a dumbell movement, it would be either flat or incline PRESS, not a fly. I think most would top out fairly quickly on flies with weight, and just the stretch of doing consistently more weight (possibly more than you can really handle) could be asking for disaster imo.....I know some guys do big weight with flies, but they are also doing MUCH bigger weight with presses....Plus, for me, flies make my shoulders scream, and the popping noises that come out of my shoulders are scary...lol
    Originally posted by Michael Travis View Post
    I agree, which is why I edited it and said "if" you plan on keeping them in.. I know my shoulders wouldnt like it, nor would I progress very far.. If anything, perhaps a press-fly, where you fly on the way down and press up if that makes sense... I just didnt say that, since I do not feel qualified on what people should and shouldn't include in their blast, as I havent been doing this long enough to guide others, just opinions. But having an incline BB and decline already, maybe he should go with hammer strength press? Not sure, but bottom line, I agree with you about the flyes..
    DB fly is actually easier on my shoulders than flat press. I hate flat press with a passion and would rather do an exercise that worked my chest more which is why I put DB fly in there. If needed I can replace it with cable crossover, but I don't really see the difference between the 2 exercises.

    I'm going for hypertrophy with this blast and DB flyes have always been great for my chest in the past.

    Plus, these posts kind of reinforced my opinion on flat press.

    Originally posted by 5spotbullseye View Post
    I say why even bother with flat press? There's plenty of other options available that will give you the same results with less injury risk.
    Originally posted by Quadriceps View Post
    I'm not expert so I'm not gonna answer your question, but I also started out benching and pretty soon realized it wasn't a very good exercise, both for my shoulder health and chest activation(Long arms, front delt dominant) so I now use mostly incline movements for chest.
    Originally posted by LearningDC View Post
    Believe it or not, my chest is always WAY more sore from floor presses than bench presses. Also, keep in mind, none of the barbell presses are really "chest" exercises. They are pressing movements that pretty much use the pressing muscles ie. front delsts triceps AND chest. Movements that converge will always be more of a "chest" exercise. That being said, anyone that wants to get bigger should be doing big movements, and barbell presses of any variety fall into that category.
    Last edited by zoot; 05-01-2011, 02:22 PM.

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  • bouncer dave
    replied
    Originally posted by bbjeff86 View Post
    , 1 arm standing DB press, .
    Jeff , are you doing those as push press?
    I am thinking about incorporating those to my rotation.

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  • Michael Travis
    replied
    Originally posted by steel1970 View Post
    I wouldn't keep the flat db fly personally. If I was gonna do a dumbell movement, it would be either flat or incline PRESS, not a fly. I think most would top out fairly quickly on flies with weight, and just the stretch of doing consistently more weight (possibly more than you can really handle) could be asking for disaster imo.....I know some guys do big weight with flies, but they are also doing MUCH bigger weight with presses....Plus, for me, flies make my shoulders scream, and the popping noises that come out of my shoulders are scary...lol
    I agree, which is why I edited it and said "if" you plan on keeping them in.. I know my shoulders wouldnt like it, nor would I progress very far.. If anything, perhaps a press-fly, where you fly on the way down and press up if that makes sense... I just didnt say that, since I do not feel qualified on what people should and shouldn't include in their blast, as I havent been doing this long enough to guide others, just opinions. But having an incline BB and decline already, maybe he should go with hammer strength press? Not sure, but bottom line, I agree with you about the flyes..
    Last edited by Michael Travis; 05-01-2011, 01:01 AM.

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  • stack3d
    replied
    Originally posted by bbjeff86 View Post
    I don't know what you are calling "calf raises" If you are talking standing machine raises, then add seated calf raises for your 3rd.

    3rd shoulder exercise options I would try would be one of 3: Push press (with slow negative), 1 arm standing DB press, or standing revers grip overhead press.
    Jeff....Not to hijack the thread but what is the width you normally use for this exercise in terms of grip. Wide or regular shoulder width apart???

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  • steel1970
    replied
    Originally posted by Michael Travis View Post
    yes push presses are a great builder. One more thing I noticed, and this is just my opinion **I AM NO EXPERT IN DC PROGRAMMING** but if you plan on keeping the DB Fly in there, I would bump the reps up on to the 20-30 RP range. I think you will find you can progress more over the long term with a higher rep range there. But like I said, do what feels right for you. Good luck on your blast
    I wouldn't keep the flat db fly personally. If I was gonna do a dumbell movement, it would be either flat or incline PRESS, not a fly. I think most would top out fairly quickly on flies with weight, and just the stretch of doing consistently more weight (possibly more than you can really handle) could be asking for disaster imo.....I know some guys do big weight with flies, but they are also doing MUCH bigger weight with presses....Plus, for me, flies make my shoulders scream, and the popping noises that come out of my shoulders are scary...lol

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  • zoot
    replied
    Originally posted by Michael Travis View Post
    yes push presses are a great builder. One more thing I noticed, and this is just my opinion **I AM NO EXPERT IN DC PROGRAMMING** but if you plan on keeping the DB Fly in there, I would bump the reps up on to the 20-30 RP range. I think you will find you can progress more over the long term with a higher rep range there. But like I said, do what feels right for you. Good luck on your blast
    That makes sense, I didn't think about changing the rep range when I put it up there which is why it was 11-15.

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  • Michael Travis
    replied
    yes push presses are a great builder. One more thing I noticed, and this is just my opinion **I AM NO EXPERT IN DC PROGRAMMING** but if you plan on keeping the DB Fly in there, I would bump the reps up on to the 20-30 RP range. I think you will find you can progress more over the long term with a higher rep range there. But like I said, do what feels right for you. Good luck on your blast
    Last edited by Michael Travis; 04-29-2011, 11:55 AM.

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