Knees are shot!

[Wardog]

I know I do not post much, but I am still going strong, and DC is working great for me. Unfortunatly, I have one issue, and that is my knees. Up until recently, I could squat, if I wrapped my knees. Towards the end of my last blast, they were getting worse, to the point I had knee pain on an everyday basis. Therefore, I took a two week cruise, and actually did NO leg work, hoping to give the knees a break. Now I started my next blast, and the issue is still there. Today, I tried to do squats, and couldnt get past the 185 level warmup, they just hurt too bad, even wrapped tightly.

Anyone else have to deal with this? Is there any quad excersize substitutions I can do which will not slam the knees as bad? Or is there any thing I can do in reguards to positioning, or different wraps to get around this issue?

Any support is greatly appreciated

[jimpaul]

Wardog if they're that bad then you're gonna need to let them heal first. Again I like to recommend seeing a professional therapist and or doctor if need be. Let them heal as much as possible first. Obviously two weeks wasn't long enough. Did you try anything at all in that time such as ointments or rubs?

[Trulyhuge]

My knees hurt as well but not to that extent. Tendonitis it sounds like to me. If it is unbearable maybe get it looked at bro!

TH

[Wardog]

Raul, it really sucks, because I am seeing some great results from the program.

Damn, no one has any miracle wraps or anything? I know if I go to a damn doc, he will probably recommend something stupid, like surgery with my luck.

If I stand and do an unweighted squat, I feel the pain, (as well as if I climb stairs). Now, if I press down hard on my kneecaps with my hands and attempt an unweighted squat, I do not get any real pain. Is there anything out there that can hold the kneecap "tigher" than your typical ace bandage type of wrap? I tried those big neoprene things with the velcro straps, and they did nothing for me. Is there anything better out there?

[jimpaul]

I had a pain in one of my knees just before working with D's program and instead of wraps I went with I guess would be called support wraps or pads. They were pretty cheap and I got them from Walmart. The name is Athletic Works.

[SweatMachine]

Try some 2 ball tonic--good for what ails ya!

[Wardog]

Sweat, not a bad idea, but I am going to try some IGF-1 since I have heard it is helping some people with joint issues. It is worth a shot.

Thru my 20's I used to compete in a lot of MMA. I know I have torn them up pretty damn good over the years. One of the guys I used to train with during those years just needed knee replacement surgery, so I am determined to try everything out there before I end up at the Docs, because I have a pretty good suspicion of what he will say.

[Doggcrapp]

a) seen this happen many many times with people who do thigh "shots"--if thats the case I would cease that
b)also seen it happen with rapid muscle/weight gain with some trainees (especially when you talked about squatting with no weight)....if your weighing 250-300lbs and your body truly was meant to weigh 150-175lbs without weight training, thats not really an unweighted squat--thats a 100lb plus barbell on your back every time you squat down.

If I was you I would stay away from hacks and i would squat and smythe squat and leg press for sets of 10 for your heavy sets and I would do nothing but different versions of the leg press for your 20 rep sets. Id also determine if a diminished testosterone problem is the root of joint problems either from super supps or prohormone usage and depending on age I would get a prescription to remedy that

[Wardog]

Hey DC, thanks for the input. As far as your pointers, I will say yes, I have been know to do quad shots, but I had taken a long break (since last jan) and had T levels checked about two weeks ago before I decided to super supp for a while. Results came back high normal, so I am good in that department.

As far as additional bodyweight, I was around 250 or so when I started, and was cutting. Actually I WAS cutting (I thought) only dropped about 5 pounds, but the waistline was shrinking while everything else was growing, so I kept on rolling along. I took my cruise for 2 weeks, lifted rather light and did no leg work. Also chucked out the diet for those 2 weeks, figuring to give my body a break. Apparently it appreciated it, because in the 2 week cruise period, I gained 10 pounds, while only getting back about 1/2 inch on the waist. My damn chest exploded, to the point of new stretch marks. Final weight at the end of the cruise is 255. So realisticly, I have not gained a lot of weight, just done a hell of a recomposition.

Now I am blasting again, except with some super supplements so I can drop calories a bit more. (Not a lot more, since I seem to be on the right track) and I am increasing cardio from 3 to 4 days a week. We will see if the super supplementation helps at all. If not, as I mentioned, starting Dec I am going to try IGF-1 so perhaps that will help.

Until then, I will make the excersize changes you suggested, and if my mid Dec, niether the supps or the IGF have helped, I will hobble my ass to the docs.

Raul, I already use glucosamine, and I do dose heavy on the water soluable vitamins, I will see what I can do about a heat wrap.

I appreciate everybodys input, and will be happy to share the outcome of the IGF since we seem to have a lot of knee issues around here

[PTAaron]

A good place to start for self treatment (on top of what you already have going on) is ice massage... take a chunk of ice (paper cup full of water works well) and rub it over the most sore point for 5-8 minutes at least 3 times per day. That will do a few things: decrease the pain, decrease the inflammation, and promote the healing... in the case of long term tendonitis (if that is what you have) it tends to turn to tendonosis over time - with tendonosis you get a weakening of the collagen fibers, deposits of 'jelly-like' goo through the tendon, and formation of abnormal blood vessals through the tendon - the ice actually prevents to formation of the blood vessals and can help to stop the tendonitis from progressing to tendonosis.
As far as a doctor - be sure to don't just go to a family practice guy - they will almost all do an x-ray, poke at it, and say you have tendonitis then give you an anti-inflam and tell you not to work out. See a Sports Medicine doctor (FACSM I think is the designation) - they are required to stay up to date on the latest research and treatments, and are generally much more thorough and well versed in the treatment of athletes without limiting their activity level (within reason).

[Cardinal]

From my experience most any quad exercise will tend to put some pressure on the knee joint. When you eventually can return to squatting, have you considered power squatting to take some of the pressure off. Or box squatting so that you can sit back a lot further? You could also look into some common squatting implements like safety squat bar etc. Try varying stances, depth etc. Keep an open mind and squat in whatever way doesn't cause you pain!

If it is indeed tendonitis, it tends to come back when you start replicating the movement that caused it or anything similar. For now, I would definitely just lay off the quad work all together. Careful with other movements that might exascerbate it also (Dling etc)

If you aren't familiar with ART (active release), you might consider it. So many people that tried it seem to have had success.

I read a bit of info off of t-mag by Ian King that might be of interest to you as well. You might look there too.

Just a few ideas...

[deepsquat]

have you ever tried DMSO sometimes it works miracles!