Eating the protein First Reviewing Why we do it.

[Quadriceps]

I've been told that you should always eat protein first, except for first meal of the day and post workout meal. Anyone do that?

That is, carbs first.

[chaseb]

Just wanted to bump this thread up after reading old threads from some vets.

Hope it helps someone as much as it helped me.

[adventurebible]

I learned awhile ago that mixing quick-carbs/sugars and fats, while tasty, are not physique friendly. No one ever got big and lean on Krispy Kreme.
Yet for a long time, and sometimes even now, I have a breakfast of several whole eggs and whole wheat toast or oatmeal with natural peanut butter. That is Pro/Carb/Fat. The distiction I always made, in my mind and opinion, is that "slow-carbs" or fiberous carbs can be paired with fats, due to their gentle insulin release. I realize, of course, that my opinion is mine and I can do what I want. But isn't there some distinction to be seen (concerning insulin, fat storage, etc) between a bowl of, say, slow-digesting pasta and olive oil vs a bowl of Ben and Jerrys'?

i have this same worry,
for breakfast i normally eat
8 whites + 1 yolk
1 tbsp natty pb with my oatmeal

how about sat vs unsat fats too?

anyone has opinions?

[Daniel]

if so...

most phil hernon clients mixes simple carbs (from fruit) fats and protein and they are getting leaner. WHY?

[Be Prime]

If protein increases basal metabolism by 30% and carbs increase it by 10%, then why do refeed days specialize in carbs instead of protein if we are wanting to set our metabolism on fire? Would make more since to me, if this is true, to have around 1k grams of protein on that day instead right?

[Massive G]

most phil hernon clients mixes simple carbs (from fruit) fats and protein and they are getting leaner. WHY?

and they only EAT when hungry and do 3 sets per bodypart and train bodyparts 3 times a week...right?

The truth lies in experience. Try both ways and see what works best for you. to me diet is 70 % of the game so try 4 months of each diet and then get back to us.

My experience is based on the results I get with my clients and myself over the years.

[Massive G]

If protein increases basal metabolism by 30% and carbs increase it by 10%, then why do refeed days specialize in carbs instead of protein if we are wanting to set our metabolism on fire? Would make more since to me, if this is true, to have around 1k grams of protein on that day instead right?

Because one of the purposes of a refeed is to super compensate using carbs after being depleted, and you will be depleted if you eat low carb and high protein and medium -high fats.
Trust me I have tried to super compensate with excess protein and fats in place of carbs -for calories and it just not the same results.

[adventurebible]

also:
carbs and fats dont go well together,
so does it go that oily fish like salmon (around 6-7g of fats /100g) only go into pro-fat meals?

[Massive G]

i have this same worry,
for breakfast i normally eat
8 whites + 1 yolk
1 tbsp natty pb with my oatmeal

how about sat vs unsat fats too?

anyone has opinions?

also:
carbs and fats dont go well together,
so does it go that oily fish like salmon (around 6-7g of fats /100g) only go into pro-fat meals?

I responded in the other thread but got a phone call and came back and posted it and lost it in the board refreshing itself.
There are times when I do mix carbs and fats -I do as a rule try to stay away from simple sugars and saturated fats as much as possible.
My breakfast I usually mix complex carbs and good fats and protein as it is usually
8 omega 3 eggs cook over medium in EVOO
6-12 pieces of turkey bacon or turkey sausage
Large bowl of oatmeal with cinnamon and Sugar free Log Cabin Maple Syrup or
A couple of protein pancakes, the syrup above, and omega 3 butter.

I try to avoid large amounts of saturated fats meaning if I go out to a steak house or buy some rib-eyes on sale -I will trim the fat off and eat half a baked pot and no bread...depending on the fat content of the rib eye.
You don't have to 100% separate fats carbs and proteins -but make an effort to eat the proteins first, then veggies then carbs. We all cheat or slip up at times for sure even on contest diets but don't lose sleep over it.

The other thing is body fat levels if you are 20% vs. 8% you better be eating differently-that means the guy with the higher body fat should stick to the pro fat, pro carb meals and only eat pro veg at night. He probably shouldn't be adding the flax or olive oil to his shake at night -he should make a night time blend of calcium and micellar caseins. A guy below 10% and having trouble gaining weight can get by with mixing carbs and fats more so and eat more carbs later in the night-and basically eat everything that he can over 3-4 complex meals a day and 3-4 protein shakes with EFA's and not go as heavy on the cardio as a guy with more body fat.


You can get the food down I have written threads on this in the past-maybe posts buried in threads but will probably write another one on it here in the next few weeks-

Get a meat grinder or have your grocer grind your chicken and steak-I know they have ground turkey and chicken and lean beef but back in my day in the mid 90's I would go to food lion and buy up all the cheap tough steak I could-this was usually like the shoulder steak and some other tough cuts of the cow that were lean and sliced thin because they were so tough to chew and eat.
So grinding them turned it into a super lean tender ground beef that flaked off in your mouth it was so tender...

One big tip I tell people is to chew proteins less and eat quicker-that means don't take 30 minutes to eat a chicken breast and baked potato-because when you are eating 4-5 times a day and cramming in 3-5 shakes to really pound the food and break barriers over the years as you grow-
Meat grinding is a godsend-a couple of chews, savor it and swallow it as the real digestion/absorption for proteins starts in the stomach -not the mouth like carbs. Chewing kills your appetite after a certain point it turns off your hunger set point and you won't be able to eat as much or as many meals as you like if you spend all day chewing that dry chicky whicky breast...

Marinating meats helps tenderize them as well-a whole host of thins to consider when EATING.


In addition there were times when I needed to really pound the protein and I would have a 30-60 gram TP whey shake as a drink with my meal as well, (SuperD and I used to throw these ideas around on here back in the day when we were banging heads at 300 like big bull matter horns trying to see who could pack on the most weight)

Then we have the addition of digestive aids as well to help move the protein through-get it in and out and then get more in...Also tons of good ideas Dante threw out there years ago mixing meats with soup to get them down easier.

Nobody ever gets obese off of protein and fats-they get obese and fatter by eating carbs and fats together in large quantities through out the day and at night.

ONE OF THE DUMBEST GENERAL STATEMENTS I HAVE EVER READ AND ABHOR IS
"EAT. LIFT. SLEEP. REPEAT."

Goddamn! That statement makes it sound soooo easy right; well it's HOW you do the above and why that makes you larger beyond your wildest dreams. That statement is only true for those with elite genetics and even then THEY have to get structured to get to the top.

Sample diet for me

Eat every 2-3 hours alternate solid meals and liquid
I won’t put macros and amounts in because it's useless to have a 180 lb guy duplicate a 280 lb guy.

Meal 1
Omega 3 eggs EVOO
Oatmeal
Turkey bacon or sausage
Supplements
Tea

Water with crystal light and glycerol

Meal 2
Lean roast beef slices
Walnuts or almonds

Water with crystal light and glycerol


Meal 3
Pepto pro
Fish oil

Water with crystal light and glycerol

Meal 4
Chicken or 96% lean beef
Rice or potato
Salad
Steamed veggies
Iced tea

Water with crystal light and glycerol

Meal 5
Pepto pro
Fish oil

Water with crystal light and glycerol

Meal 6 pre work out
Pepto pro
Glycerol
CEE
Crystal light
Sea salt
Swedish oat starch
Truvia
Arginine
Glutamine
True protein flavor pack
Water

Meal 7 post work out 1
Pepto pro
Swedish oat starch
Truvia
Glutamine
L-Leucine
True protein flavor pack
Water

Meal 8 post work out 2
Cottage cheese and potato or
Pasteurized egg whites and oatmeal or
Large bowl of soup with True Proteins Beef Isolate protein.

Meals 9 and 10
Chicken lean beef fish etc
Salad and as much steamed vegies as I can eat.

Before bed
Micellar casein/ calcium caseinate/egg protein blend or
Pasteurized egg whites and fish oil

Now I left out vitamin and herbal supplements which are huge to me. But I will address that later...

[adventurebible]

thanks MG for that reply, it gave me lots of new insights..

a question that springs to mind is why not pro fat meals at night?
i was always under the opinion that pro carb were all that had to be avoided, with either pro-fat or pro-veggies being fine
i am one of those with higher bf%s

another doubt which i would love to clarify would be about oily fish, i am a big fan of salmon, and normally eat salmon along with my salad for dinner..
the question is quoted below,

also, would mixing fats with veggies be fine, granted that theyre not "carbs" per se?

also:
carbs and fats dont go well together,
so does it go that oily fish like salmon (around 6-7g of fats /100g) only go into pro-fat meals?

many thanks!

[bubbachew]

Great Post, MassiveG.

[sdotcarter]

Nice update MG.

[goonstopher]

Damn Mg...

That is low carbs. Is it cause you already did most of your growing and bulking?

[GABE]

Great post MG

[IronReload 04]

Because one of the purposes of a refeed is to super compensate using carbs after being depleted, and you will be depleted if you eat low carb and high protein and medium -high fats.
Trust me I have tried to super compensate with excess protein and fats in place of carbs -for calories and it just not the same results.

also, doesnt some metabolic control involve monitoring glucose. And I do believe dietary glucose and any sugar constructed from proteins or fats is marked differently.