fast protein better???

[bigp3]

I have read some research articles as of late and there was also and article by Dr. Colker in the newest MD about fast acting proteins being better for bodybuilders. The studies shwed that when fast acting proteins were eaten that concentrations amino acids were higher in the blood stream. These studies have also showed that faster acting protein are absorbed by the body more readily than slower ones since curdling of the food in the the stomach is avoided. What this translates into is that you can eat more food more frequently when consuming faster acting proteins while at the same time maintaining higher amino acid levels in the blood. This research also showed that there are no changes in insulin levels when eating fast acting proteins and that there is no additional fat gain from eathing them. It also showed that frequent meals with fast acting proteins more effectively raised metabolic rate than consuming slower acting proteins....

Interesting stuff huh???

thoughts and comments please

[The Munster]

Makes some sense. And, since we are most serious bodybuilders are eating every 2.5 - 3 hours anyway, I think fast acting proteins are appropriate.

Except before bedtime.

[topolm]

I was under the impression that fast acting proteins (predigested) were only really useful for postworkout use when your amino acid and glycogen pools are depleted from wt lifting. The body only allows for a steady amount of amino acids in the bloodstream at one time and fast acting protein fills those pools quickly while the rest is dumped by the body I think. Personally, I feel ALOT stronger when eating beef, fish and eggs while limiting the consumption of fast acting proteins to postworkout meals, middle of the night consumption and or blending fast acting protien with a slower acting protein. Also, eating slower absorbing protein allows for a steady pipeline of aminos to be introduced into the bloodstream.

[JnJ23]

Interesting, well i just had some isolate so that makes me feel better

[In-Human]

BP, Fast in, fast out...

[In-Human]

I was under the impression that fast acting proteins (predigested) were only really useful for postworkout use when your amino acid and glycogen pools are depleted from wt lifting. The body only allows for a steady amount of amino acids in the bloodstream at one time and fast acting protein fills those pools quickly while the rest is dumped by the body I think. Personally, I feel ALOT stronger when eating beef, fish and eggs while limiting the consumption of fast acting proteins to postworkout meals, middle of the night consumption and or blending fast acting protien with a slower acting protein. Also, eating slower absorbing protein allows for a steady pipeline of aminos to be introduced into the bloodstream.

The amino acid chains are more intricate and are better absorbed in your system, red meat has the highest and longest chains of aminos over any other complete protein. Whey can be degradaded to a certain extent.

You are correct after your systems pools are filled to capacity while no exercise is being administered the rest comes out as waste in urine and feces.

Yes post would be the only time I think whey is beneficial along with a slin spike...

[The Munster]

Agree with topolm 100%




Agree with Inhuman 100%

THE PROBLEM WITH FAST ACTING PROTEIN IS THAT WORD "FAST" . IT MEANS IT GETS IN THE SYSTEM, GOES STRAIGHT INTO THE INTESTINES AND ABSORBS FAST INTO THE BLOODSTREAM WHICH MEANS AMINO ACID POOL WILL FILL FAST AND WITH THAT COMES A BIG DECLINE . IMAGINE A BICYCLE RUNNING UPHILL A CLIFF, PROTEIN HAS BIG LEGS TO CLIMB THE LADDER AND GET TO THE CLIFF , AND AT THE TOP (BOOM) :enforcer: THE PROTEIN WILL COME OUT AS FAST AS IT WENT IN, IF YOU ARE TAKING A FAST ACTING WHEY SHAKE, YOUR BODY WILL GET IT OUT IN 1 HOUR HOUR AND HALF AND THAT'S MAXIMUM.

BEST TIMES TO TAKE A FAST ACTING PROTEIN
1)WAKING UP
2)POST WORKOUT
3)ANY OTHER TIME THAT YOU KNOW YOU NEED A FAST ACTING PROTEIN BUT YOU ARE GOING TO EITHER GET WHOLE FOOD OR A SLOW DIGESTING PROTEIN LIKE CASSEIN.




I HAVE SEEN A LOT OF STUDIES WHERE CASSEIN KICKS FAST ACTING PROTEIN'S ASS EVERYDAY. THE GEL CAP THAT CASSEIN FORMS IS WHAT MAKES THE SLOW AMINO ACID UPTAKE. THE MECHANISM IS SIMILAR AS WHEN YOU INGEST A LOW GI COMPLEX CARB, PROTEIN(CASSEIN) IS INGESTED, IT GOES INTO THE DIGESTIVE TRACT, GEL CAP FORMS, AMINO ACIDS START PASSING TO THE INTESTINE (HERE IS WHERE AMINO ACIDS ARE ABSORBED INTO THE BLOODSTREAM TO HIT THE MUSCLE CELLS FOR REPAIR+GROWTH) BUT SINCE THERE IS A GEL CAP, THE AMINO ACIDS GET TRANSFERRED SLOWLY THUS BEING IN A MORE ANABOLIC ENVIRONMENT, IF YOU GUYS NEED ME TO EXPLAIN BETTER I WILL SURELY DO.

Raul,
But we still want fast acting post workout, like you said, correct? Or would a 80-90% fast acting and 10-20% slow protein be better?

And as far as other times of the day usage, a mix of slows and fasts?

[The Munster]

Thanks, RJ.

[bigp3]

Agree with topolm 100%




Agree with Inhuman 100%

THE PROBLEM WITH FAST ACTING PROTEIN IS THAT WORD "FAST" . IT MEANS IT GETS IN THE SYSTEM, GOES STRAIGHT INTO THE INTESTINES AND ABSORBS FAST INTO THE BLOODSTREAM WHICH MEANS AMINO ACID POOL WILL FILL FAST AND WITH THAT COMES A BIG DECLINE . IMAGINE A BICYCLE RUNNING UPHILL A CLIFF, PROTEIN HAS BIG LEGS TO CLIMB THE LADDER AND GET TO THE CLIFF , AND AT THE TOP (BOOM) :enforcer: THE PROTEIN WILL COME OUT AS FAST AS IT WENT IN, IF YOU ARE TAKING A FAST ACTING WHEY SHAKE, YOUR BODY WILL GET IT OUT IN 1 HOUR HOUR AND HALF AND THAT'S MAXIMUM.

BEST TIMES TO TAKE A FAST ACTING PROTEIN
1)WAKING UP
2)POST WORKOUT
3)ANY OTHER TIME THAT YOU KNOW YOU NEED A FAST ACTING PROTEIN BUT YOU ARE GOING TO EITHER GET WHOLE FOOD OR A SLOW DIGESTING PROTEIN LIKE CASSEIN.




I HAVE SEEN A LOT OF STUDIES WHERE CASSEIN KICKS FAST ACTING PROTEIN'S ASS EVERYDAY. THE GEL CAP THAT CASSEIN FORMS IS WHAT MAKES THE SLOW AMINO ACID UPTAKE. THE MECHANISM IS SIMILAR AS WHEN YOU INGEST A LOW GI COMPLEX CARB, PROTEIN(CASSEIN) IS INGESTED, IT GOES INTO THE DIGESTIVE TRACT, GEL CAP FORMS, AMINO ACIDS START PASSING TO THE INTESTINE (HERE IS WHERE AMINO ACIDS ARE ABSORBED INTO THE BLOODSTREAM TO HIT THE MUSCLE CELLS FOR REPAIR+GROWTH) BUT SINCE THERE IS A GEL CAP, THE AMINO ACIDS GET TRANSFERRED SLOWLY THUS BEING IN A MORE ANABOLIC ENVIRONMENT, IF YOU GUYS NEED ME TO EXPLAIN BETTER I WILL SURELY DO.

Here is where the new studies depart from the old ones. What was not taken in consideration about cassein, beef etc is how your body processes them. Basically what these new studies have shown that the longer acting proteins of course take longer to digest,, this is a given and what was not realized before is that as these longer acting proteins sit in your gut being digested and begin to curdle, rot and become rancid and indigestable making them unusable to the body and they clog up your digestive tract. So what in a sense happens is you lose the amount of effective protein that hits your bloodstream every hour. In addition, this slows down your digestive process and you can't eat as often as you would when consuming fast acting proteins, hence not being able to effectively consume as much protein in a day and not being able to maintain as high of a level of amino acids in your bloodstream. As Inhuman stated this is the fast in fast out principle, which allows you to eat more meals, take in more nutrients more often and effectively increasing your metabolic rate more so than you would with slow digesting protein.

All of this info is pretty new so we will have to wait it out to see what happens, but the logic behind it does make sense if you take a minute to think about it....

Time will tell.,,,,

[bigp3]

RJ,,, I am not trying to argue with you here,,, I eat tons of slower acting proteins myself. I am just trying to throw this new information out there it is new and I thought it was intersting.

This study is stating ideal conditions for muscle growth and does not factor in jobs etc. What it found is that faster acting proteins eaten every 2 hours or so provided higher amino acid concentrations in the blood stream than slower proteins which in turn made for a better environment in the body for muscle growth... This may or may not have some validity to it, this is yet to be seen. It also showed that the slower acting proteins became so rancid in the stomach after a couple of hours that they were nearly indigestable and not usable by body making them ineffective in the same amount of time as a faster acting protein was completely digested, hence more amino acids were actually used by the body with the faster acting protein than the slower.

I know that what we considered the right things to do 10 years ago in this game have change dramatically to today. Bodybuilding is an evolution and it will continue to change as new science comes to light. Don't discount this information yet until you completely understand it.... It may be wrong but it also may be the next evolution in Bodybuilding nutrition. Time will tell....

[In-Human]

BP, Beleive me this is not new news, I remember going to a diet seminar for fat pigs when I was 15 at Buffalo University for two weeks and that all they talked about was how meat supposedly got rancid in your gut and never eat the salad first, always eat the protein first for better absorption, eat all veges raw, so they have been trying to sell this for years.

You can add oil and EFAs to this whey protein to somewhat slow down the process but I think it all goes to the amino chains themselves and how much of actual solid protein your system with not only digest but really use to build muscle, digestion and absorption are two totally different things...

[In-Human]

BP, I think you are on the right track with new ideas and old ones and I think you have to take in to consideration your whole entire lifestyle and metabolism here, I will leave out my fav saying here...

[topolm]

I am curious, on doing this experiment did they measure blood amino acid concentration over a period of time? That is to say did they measure a high number of data points as a function of time? Perhaps what they measured was a time instantaneous blood amino acid concentration which was to be interpreted as a temporary amino acid spike. Would def love to read this study.

This study is stating ideal conditions for muscle growth and does not factor in jobs etc. What it found is that faster acting proteins eaten every 2 hours or so provided higher amino acid concentrations in the blood stream than slower proteins which in turn made for a better environment in the body for muscle growth... This may or may not have some validity to it, this is yet to be seen. It also showed that the slower acting proteins became so rancid in the stomach after a couple of hours that they were nearly indigestable and not usable by body making them ineffective in the same amount of time as a faster acting protein was completely digested, hence more amino acids were actually used by the body with the faster acting protein than the slower.

[bigp3]

they said whey produced a fairly constant blood level over 90 minutes to 2 hours

[Bryson]

Here are a couple of links I had bookmarked. Hopefully someone else finds them as interesting as I did.

http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=121

http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=110