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  • Debate about rep Speed

    Ok guys

    First off. Don't take this as an attacking post. I have nothing but respect for this type of training and I think its one of the best you can do.

    I experimented with HIT for awhile and i thought it sucked. only doing one straight set. and waiting a full a week(OR LONGER) to train again. It wasn't intense enough. i think the rep cadence that mike mentzer recomends sux. "non-explosive" positive. and his theories on recovery are and how long it takes for muscles to start decomposing is rediculous. I CAN SEE WHY YOU GUYS GET MAD WHEN PEOPLE COMPARE THE TWO. I think DC is a HIT type workout but its like comparing a Bently to a Ford Pinto.

    I've been doing a BBB routine which has been working fantastic for me. However, this DC training is very appealing to me as well. My split is pretty much the same as your guys, I tried a DC workout today and I really liked it. Felt amazing after the rest pause and my stretch

    My one concern is the 4 second negative. Seems to me that why would a person concentrate on negatives with w8 they can do positives with? I believe in controlling the w8 but why the 4 second negative?

    This is how i did my workout today. lets say for chest.....i did my first 8 reps with a controlled negative but by no means a SLOW one then an explosive postive. Once I failed on my 8th rep i then did a negative as slow as possible since at that point the positve strenght is gone.

    DO ALL OF YOU GUYS DO 4 SECOND NEGATIVES ON ALL REPS, OR DO SOME DO HOW I DESCRIBED?

    please I hope no one takes this post as argueing, Just trying to learn as what these boards are for.

    what do you guys think


    Peace

    CONAN

  • #2
    I don't know that anyone is sitting around with a stopwatch when doing their negatives. I think the whole concept is to control the negative more than anything.....
    I do not condone the use of anabolic steroids or any illegal drug, any information discussed is for educational purposes only.

    "Every goal has a price if you are willing to pay it"

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    • #3
      its not a 4 second negative its just a controled negative so that at any time you could if you wanted to, move the weight in the other direction. its not a certain number of seconds just controling the weight on the negative;.

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      • #4
        Just control it. THat's all you have to do. If you wanna take a half second to get it up and take about 6 seconds to lower it that's cool. If you wanna take 5 seconds to get it up and 5 seconds to lower it that's cool too. Just do the cadence that works for you. The importance is just control.

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        • #5
          wow

          4 replies already. LOL

          Raul, I don't really understand. you say just control it but then you say do 4 seconds cuz thats where the magic is. I'd say a true 4 seconds is a lil more than just controlling it. I agree not to lift w8s wildly and control the w8 but i don't see why one would do the negative so slow untill Positive strength is gone.

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          • #6
            A controlled negative and an explosive positive is what DC requires I believe. He said the worst thing he did was tell people to do a 4 to 6 second negative because then people started using stopwatches. He talks about this in his previous posts.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by USMuscle9403
              Just control it. THat's all you have to do. If you wanna take a half second to get it up and take about 6 seconds to lower it that's cool. If you wanna take 5 seconds to get it up and 5 seconds to lower it that's cool too. Just do the cadence that works for you. The importance is just control.
              No the idea is to explode on the positive, it takes more muscle fiberes to lower a weight then it does to lift it, you do not want to waste your strength with slow positives...
              "That damn log book"

              www.trueprotein.com Highest quality protein at the lowest price...

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              • #8
                Originally posted by bigp3
                I don't know that anyone is sitting around with a stopwatch when doing their negatives. I think the whole concept is to control the negative more than anything.....
                Agreed 100%, why does anyone need to analyze this?, you should always be in control when you lift, is there any other way to do it?...
                "That damn log book"

                www.trueprotein.com Highest quality protein at the lowest price...

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                • #9
                  I don't count my seconds on my negatives, but I absolutely know that they are at least 4 seconds. I'm like Raul, through both listening to Dante and through my own experience, I realize the negative portion is definitely where the magic happens. While they don't have to be quite that slow, I prefer to keep my eccentrics very exaggerated...

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                  • #10
                    I spent many years doing TUT experiments using a metronome etc... to make my rep speeds precise and I can tell you that I found that if you do not do your concentrics explosively you WILL lose muscle mass..no matter how slow you negatives are
                    Massive G
                    Discount Code MASSG

                    www.trueprotein.com

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                    • #11
                      I like to actually throw the weights around, all ten pounds of it!
                      ain't it the shit? Just wait til you guys/gals see some of the strength jumps lol..and the size you put on!
                      Good luck
                      Jimpaul/Newtoketo

                      EAT BIG, LIFT BIG AND GET BIG...SOUNDS LIKE A PLAN

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                      • #12
                        sit at your desk right now and pretend your doing an incline bench press and control the weight down---now do it again and count one onethousand two onethousand and see what you come up with--for me it comes out to about 4 seconds. Whats it going to be on a t bar row? it sure as hell wont be 4 seconds. Maybe 2 seconds. What will it be on a squat? If you go rock bottom and pause and raise up like I want you to do them it will probably be a true 3-4 seconds. My whole reasoning of this is if you want to spend the time to research it on medline the positive part of a movement is a priming (strengthening predominantly) method and the eccentric is where most of the cellular disruption is taking place----without getting too wordy here because im hungry and have to eat---they tried testing with only positive movements and it had less effect than both together. they tried to do eccentric only training and it didnt work as well without the positive.....explosive positive and controlled negative have been stated too many times too discount. The trouble starts when people start overanalyzing this again to death with stopwatches. If your controlling the weight down instead of just letting it drop then your doing A ok. If you took the whole amount of people who are in lean shape but claim to be powerlifters and the whole amount of people who are in lean shape who claim to be bodybuilders (or rather who are trying to look like one) (this group would be huge) and made them stand in front of you, you would see a glaring fact. Most of the powerlifters you would be able to tell that they lifted because of their thickness. I would estimate that about 35-40% of the bodybuilders you would be able to actually tell lifted. You can see this by going into your gym tonite. See all those people lifting? How many people in the gym are there and how many would you actually be able to tell are lifters if you saw them walk down the street? The powerlifter group is a smaller number definitely but I can always tell a powerlifter in my gym--big traps and thick muscle mass. Gee why is that? Its because powerlifters train with controlled movements for meets. They lower a bench press bar slow touch their chest and power it up. They descend under control in a squat and then power it up. I pointed out in a post up above about boat rowers and lumberjack tree sawers who did predominantly positive movements and had no muscle mass to show for it while gymnasts do extended eccentric/negative movments and always have a discernable musculature. You do the math
                        @dante_trudel

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by RaulJimenez
                          :enforcer:

                          Let me say this...and it's addressed to anyone who is not as strong as I am....LOL...To people who haven't maxed out on pretty much every machine in the gym...to guys who still have room on the hack squat to fit more plates.....etc...
                          One day...perhaps years from now you will get to the point (possibly) that you are so strong that you will have no other option than to slow down your eccentrics further and THAT right there was the motivation for my TUT experiment mentioned above....
                          Massive G
                          Discount Code MASSG

                          www.trueprotein.com

                          Discount Code MASSG

                          MG "Powdered Muscle" http://www.trueprotein.com/Product_D...id=31&pid=6952

                          MG "Testosterone Booster" http://www.trueprotein.com/Product_D...id=31&pid=6954

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                          • #14
                            thanks for all the great responses guys.

                            Dante, thanks for Chiming in. So many other trainers don't want to give a tid bit of advice unless your paying them

                            I love how you DC guys all try to help out as much as you can. . 15 replies in 1 hour. awesome
                            Last edited by Conan21; 10-07-2004, 12:26 AM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Conan21
                              thanks for all the great responses guys.

                              Dante, thanks for Chiming in. So many other trainers don't want to give a tid bit of advice unless your paying them

                              I love how you DC guys all try to help out as much as you can. . 15 replies in 1 hour. awesome
                              it's the best site on the net bro, so many experienced lifters
                              TRAIN
                              EAT
                              SLEEP

                              DC STYLE!!!



                              www.trueprotein.com

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