Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Question on Negative

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Question on Negative

    I have been doing DC training for a while (took 2 years off when armwrestling). I totally geeked out on all the info and posts over the years but saw a couple things and had a question.

    Does EVERY rest pause "mini-set" end in a slow negative, or is it just the last rep on the last RP set for the exercise. For example

    Incline press: 225x10, x5, x2(slow 30 second negative on last rep)

    The above is how I always have been doing it. Am I totally wrong?

  • #2
    I do not believe that the negative is a required part of the DC set but an option. I could be wrong but I don't think I am.

    Anyone else?

    Skip


    Facebook: Skip Hill
    Instagram: @intensemuscle
    YouTube: TEAMSKIP
    TikTok: @intensemuscle


    For Training Inquiries: [email protected]

    Use discount code "SKIP" and get your TEAM SKIP protein here: www.TrueNutrition.com/TEAMSKIPblend

    Comment


    • #3
      That's correct about the above exercise
      But it's exercise dependent

      My understanding is its more of an isometric hold...
      The thing to remember is its not on every exercises

      For instance rack chins it's reccomended to get partials 15-20 (or 30) after resting after your last mini set

      Obviously squats variations, hacks, leg presses, stiff leg variation, deadlift variations, and bent row/free standing row variations (I even found upright rows to be tough on my joints when trying to hold that shit up) are going to potentially be risky to try to control a static hold

      But you'll also notice that these are the exercises that are
      1.Prescribed more than one set (back thickness,and quads for instance get 2 straight sets 6-8 and 10-12 ish are a good guide for back thickness, and 4-8 and 20 plus balls to the wall for legs I believe was the origional rep ranges listed) *note I'm going from memory
      I think the back thickness may be a little different... I personally never used reps under 10 if I could help it for either... I simply hurt less in the knees/low back than a heavy set of 4 on squats Plus I jus feel like the 8-12 and 15 to 30 ranges are jus better for me...

      2. Ok so for the stiff legs there is the option of a single 15-25 straight set
      Or the 6s technique

      The 6s technique is where you put what u can perform a sldl with about 15-20 ish reps
      Perform 6
      Add 20 lbs (10 a side)
      Perform 6
      Add 20
      Perform 6 if you can (or jus rep to failure)
      Rest as little as possible during this sequence
      Helps if u have some one putting the plates on negating the need to strap in repeatedly

      3. For forearms I never performed a static and I'd caution on those and even skullkrusher and ext variations (but notice the reps are somewhat higher 11-22 ss for forearms and 20-30 rp for ext respectively)
      This is jus advice to avoid the bitch of having tendinitis lol
      I fucked my elbows up trying to static some shit

      Save those for dips close grips dip machine rev grip presses heavy lockouts or serious compounds ect.... Seriously the elbow is a fragile bitch man... Respect it bc u can't train SHIT with bad tennis elbow... It sucks fucking holding on to shit to do leg work and arm movements....nope not happening... I had it so bad I'd damn near drop water Jugs...

      Honestly if your going balls out on the set the static is a lot of the times going to kick your ass... I always went straight into mine as opposed to resting the 12-15 breaths
      If it's your thing
      Rest the 12-15 breaths I jus liked the feel of having the pump getting the bar up and jus fighting it right away
      I feel like that gives me complete failure of the muscle, Concentric when u can't get the last one, Eccentric/ISO metric when you can't hold/stop the wt anymore

      You may (if you lift alone) and I advise this for dumbbell shit (with a spotter more I this later) and obviously for pulldowns or exercises that require u to get from concentric failure to the end range of the rep
      Have to gather yourself (say rack the smythe or rest the hammer pulldown) a few seconds to get the wt up
      Take the 12-15 sec
      Then do the ISO hold/slow negative

      I'd also caution doing these with Dumbbells
      Be aware you could fucking eat a serious peanut if your killing it in there
      If you are going to do bells
      Rest the 12-15 breaths before going into it and I would still prolly jus not do it unless I had a good spotter
      Think about a dumbell incline press where u barely got the rep up and
      Well your face
      This is jus me though

      Be smart about ghr type things and leg curls

      There is a point in a leg curl for most people where the wt gets and it's jus real hard to get it to go down
      Like the wt is transferred to the tendon
      Ull know it when u get there like u can't hold the wt then all of a sudden it's almost like
      Shit it ain't moving but the stress is lessened on the muscle

      Be smart and know when to bail
      Same with biceps Especially preacher moves

      If you get to that point (like jus past 3/4 ext of arm/knee) and the muscle isn't stressed and it's more tendon
      Bail at that point lol

      Calves have the negative and stretch built in and if your doing the 15 sec tech right and heavy enough there's no possibility you will WANT to add a negative to it

      Jus my .02 cents
      Last edited by DC_catholic315; 10-07-2015, 08:14 PM.
      I see you didn't take a s#!t before deadlifting....
      I too like to live dangerously

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Keyser_Soze11 View Post
        I have been doing DC training for a while (took 2 years off when armwrestling). I totally geeked out on all the info and posts over the years but saw a couple things and had a question.

        Does EVERY rest pause "mini-set" end in a slow negative, or is it just the last rep on the last RP set for the exercise. For example

        Incline press: 225x10, x5, x2(slow 30 second negative on last rep)

        The above is how I always have been doing it. Am I totally wrong?
        Simply:

        For each segment of your RP, finish on a negative, even on the rep you fail to get a concentric on (or lowering the weight after failure). OF COURSE, this requires that you have a good spotter or are using a machine, rack, etc. where this is safe to do.

        Start each Segment of an RP with a negative whenever possible, too (see below).

        The static (pulsing or simply an attempt to hold at point of the ROM where you can feel the target muscle working - this will depend on the exercise) comes after you've taken your 12-15 breaths after the last segment of the RP set, e.g:

        15-20RP set might go: 11 --- 3 --- 2 --- (12-15 breaths here!) --- Static hold for as long as possible while being safe (which would have as a goal of 30 seconds, but is almost never accomplished).

        Each of those 11, 3 and 3 rep sets would start with a negative when you have a choice (e.g., start pressing movements from the top), but you don't have to do something overly bizarre (like have a partner lift heavy DB's to the starting position for a curl RP set) to make this happen. Common sense here.

        Statics (prolonged negatives with or without pulses / partials) are only done with RP sets.

        -S
        The Book Has Arrived!
        The Book Has Arrived!

        Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


        www.TrueNutrition.com

        2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
        2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
        2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Ken "Skip" Hill View Post
          I do not believe that the negative is a required part of the DC set but an option. I could be wrong but I don't think I am.

          Anyone else?

          Skip
          My first run with DC I did not do any statics. This tkme around I do kind of what Scott is saying below. Although right now, every rep has a pretty damn slow eccentric followed by an even slower static at the end. Not just the end of each loop.

          True Nutrition Discount: SRC745
          *2006 USAPL Washington State Powerlifting Championships- 1st, 14-16 age-148lb class -2nd Men's Open 148lb class
          •2x WABDL Worlds Runner Up - Teens 16-17 165lb
          *Former WABDL Teen 16-17 165lb World Record Bench Holder (Washington state record) of 396.6lbs

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by homonunculus View Post
            Simply:

            For each segment of your RP, finish on a negative, even on the rep you fail to get a concentric on (or lowering the weight after failure). OF COURSE, this requires that you have a good spotter or are using a machine, rack, etc. where this is safe to do.

            Start each Segment of an RP with a negative whenever possible, too (see below).

            The static (pulsing or simply an attempt to hold at point of the ROM where you can feel the target muscle working - this will depend on the exercise) comes after you've taken your 12-15 breaths after the last segment of the RP set, e.g:

            15-20RP set might go: 11 --- 3 --- 2 --- (12-15 breaths here!) --- Static hold for as long as possible while being safe (which would have as a goal of 30 seconds, but is almost never accomplished).

            Each of those 11, 3 and 3 rep sets would start with a negative when you have a choice (e.g., start pressing movements from the top), but you don't have to do something overly bizarre (like have a partner lift heavy DB's to the starting position for a curl RP set) to make this happen. Common sense here.

            Statics (prolonged negatives with or without pulses / partials) are only done with RP sets.

            -S
            I have done them both on my final rep with a spotter getting me to the top after failure and I have also stopped for a short rest and then did a static. Both have accomplished the same thing although I can obviously hold the second way much longer.

            True Nutrition Discount: SRC745
            *2006 USAPL Washington State Powerlifting Championships- 1st, 14-16 age-148lb class -2nd Men's Open 148lb class
            •2x WABDL Worlds Runner Up - Teens 16-17 165lb
            *Former WABDL Teen 16-17 165lb World Record Bench Holder (Washington state record) of 396.6lbs

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks for all the advice guys, really appreciate it. I train alone most of the time, and I normally end most of my sets with a slow negative. However, on the last mini set of the RP set I do a SUPER slow negative just to cap it all off (try for 20-30 seconds).

              I feel when it comes to the intricate details like this it doesnt really matter too much as long as form is good and the RP sets are brutal and controlled

              Comment


              • #8
                and no statics for triceps...
                ain't it the shit? Just wait til you guys/gals see some of the strength jumps lol..and the size you put on!
                Good luck
                Jimpaul/Newtoketo

                EAT BIG, LIFT BIG AND GET BIG...SOUNDS LIKE A PLAN

                USE TRUENUTRITION.COM FOR ALL YOUR
                SUPPLEMENTAL NEEDS!!
                TO GET MY DISCOUNT USE Jat338

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by jimpaul View Post
                  and no statics for triceps...
                  Even for:
                  Reverse presses
                  Cgbp
                  Dips
                  Dip machine

                  I only ask for curiosity sake
                  I obviously understand for pjrs and extension type movements...
                  Why the pulsing/static/enhanced neg isn't used?
                  I see you didn't take a s#!t before deadlifting....
                  I too like to live dangerously

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I've always used statics on triceps. Just not widow makers before stretches because the triceps are already hit through chest and shoulder moves.

                    True Nutrition Discount: SRC745
                    *2006 USAPL Washington State Powerlifting Championships- 1st, 14-16 age-148lb class -2nd Men's Open 148lb class
                    •2x WABDL Worlds Runner Up - Teens 16-17 165lb
                    *Former WABDL Teen 16-17 165lb World Record Bench Holder (Washington state record) of 396.6lbs

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I statics on triceps too. After a week of tinkering I have my DC routine, finalized. It is nice to be back doing it "full time." I will tell you the extreme stretches work wonders if not for the recovery alone

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        any kind of static movement on tri's tends to really bother my elbows over time. I wouldn't recommend them but I'm a bit older now (43). I've never had any problems with my elbows but almost as soon as I start doing static holds I start having problems....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          So, since stretches were brought up, I have a couple of questions:

                          First, I too appreciate the side effect of less DOMS w/ the extreme stretching, but I find that I get really intense soreness in my upper chest and front delts after the days when I incline DB bench (big surprise, huh?). Anyway, I always use the flat bench DB extreme stretch as prescribed. I wonder: Is there any reason not to do the stretch on a slight incline on incline DB day, so as to better hit the area where I'm getting that delayed soreness? I recognize that the point of the extreme stretching is to expand the fascia but I'm assuming a connection between the benefit of the stretch and the lack of DOMS.

                          Second question, also about stretching: I feel the prescribed triceps stretch only minimally in the triceps and moreso in my delts and upper insertion of the lats (which are admittedly quite tight). I will continue to work on this tightness but I'm wondering if anyone has found alternative triceps stretches that work, or can perhaps suggest a mod I can use to get a better stretch as prescribed?

                          Thanks in advance.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DC_catholic315 View Post
                            Even for:
                            Reverse presses
                            Cgbp
                            Dips
                            Dip machine

                            I only ask for curiosity sake
                            I obviously understand for pjrs and extension type movements...
                            Why the pulsing/static/enhanced neg isn't used?
                            That's how Dante trained me. No statics for triceps...believe it can possibly be dangerous.
                            ain't it the shit? Just wait til you guys/gals see some of the strength jumps lol..and the size you put on!
                            Good luck
                            Jimpaul/Newtoketo

                            EAT BIG, LIFT BIG AND GET BIG...SOUNDS LIKE A PLAN

                            USE TRUENUTRITION.COM FOR ALL YOUR
                            SUPPLEMENTAL NEEDS!!
                            TO GET MY DISCOUNT USE Jat338

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by wbgoeltz View Post
                              So, since stretches were brought up, I have a couple of questions:

                              First, I too appreciate the side effect of less DOMS w/ the extreme stretching, but I find that I get really intense soreness in my upper chest and front delts after the days when I incline DB bench (big surprise, huh?). Anyway, I always use the flat bench DB extreme stretch as prescribed. I wonder: Is there any reason not to do the stretch on a slight incline on incline DB day, so as to better hit the area where I'm getting that delayed soreness? I recognize that the point of the extreme stretching is to expand the fascia but I'm assuming a connection between the benefit of the stretch and the lack of DOMS.

                              Second question, also about stretching: I feel the prescribed triceps stretch only minimally in the triceps and moreso in my delts and upper insertion of the lats (which are admittedly quite tight). I will continue to work on this tightness but I'm wondering if anyone has found alternative triceps stretches that work, or can perhaps suggest a mod I can use to get a better stretch as prescribed?

                              Thanks in advance.
                              Don't think with the stretches that they are set in stone so to speak. Try out the other stretches like you want to. I won't tell anyone. For triceps some people use dips but be careful. Or maybe the ladders style stretch on smith or stationery rack. [like seen with flew lewis with mr supplement on tricep video]
                              Last edited by jimpaul; 11-06-2015, 01:09 AM.
                              ain't it the shit? Just wait til you guys/gals see some of the strength jumps lol..and the size you put on!
                              Good luck
                              Jimpaul/Newtoketo

                              EAT BIG, LIFT BIG AND GET BIG...SOUNDS LIKE A PLAN

                              USE TRUENUTRITION.COM FOR ALL YOUR
                              SUPPLEMENTAL NEEDS!!
                              TO GET MY DISCOUNT USE Jat338

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X