Good time for DC?

[Pumped340]

For years I have read about DC training but always thought it wasn't appropriate for me. Either I was not advanced enough or I only had access to limited equipment.

Well now I am at a strength level that I think is suitable (12x455 deads, 10x250 front squat, 10x100 DB shoulder press, etc.) and have access to a reasonably equipped gym. Not amazing but enough for a few rotations of exercises I believe.

I am getting back to my roots of longer bulking periods (8-9 months) with short cutting periods (2-3 months) which is what gave me far more progress than I've seen in the last year by cutting too often. So I will begin my 9 month bulk in August, and 20 weeks of this will be "enhanced" (two 10-week periods).

Everything seems like I'm finally ready for it BUT I am asking because I will be starting dental school in August. This seems like another reason for DC training being good because I will likely only have time for 3 workouts per week. But I will be under a whole new level of stress and likely only getting 5-6 hours of sleep most nights.

Now the reality is I think most people have a lot of stress in their lives and not always optimal sleep and still make great progress with DC, and as mentioned I will be bulking the whole time and "enhanced" part of the time so I would be surprised if DC was not finally appropriate, but figured I would get some thoughts from the experts here.

Currently I am on a modified PHAT routine and doing fairly well. But as mentioned have been curious about DC for awhile now and things seem lined up for it.

Thanks

[FeHoister]

Why not? Sounds like you have enough experience and strength so id say go for it! Only way to tell is try it. Obviously some people can be told a definitive "no" when they are benching 135 and only been working out a few months. If you can stay consistent and stick with the program, maintain the diet, generate the required intensity, and recover adequately then I dont see why you couldn't do it?

[Pumped340]

Why not? Sounds like you have enough experience and strength so id say go for it! Only way to tell is try it. Obviously some people can be told a definitive "no" when they are benching 135 and only been working out a few months. If you can stay consistent and stick with the program, maintain the diet, generate the required intensity, and recover adequately then I dont see why you couldn't do it?

I would think so too, just wondering if the experts here might have thought it would be a bad time with the added stress + lack of sleep that would accompany dental school. But as mentioned most people are going to have significant stressors in the lives.

[jcross485]

Just be honest with yourself once you get through a blast or two. I have decent numbers myself (610x1 dead, 275x4 paused bench, 440x3 raw olympic squat @ 5'11", sub 200lbs and drug free) and I went three full blasts and cruises and realized mentally I just wasn't ready for it with certain body parts. I was able to generate enough intensity on hams, quads, and back thickness; the rest I just could not push far enough. I went to another program to build up some more and I will give DC another go in about 3 1/2 months after my contest prep.

[Pumped340]

Just be honest with yourself once you get through a blast or two. I have decent numbers myself (610x1 dead, 275x4 paused bench, 440x3 raw olympic squat @ 5'11", sub 200lbs and drug free) and I went three full blasts and cruises and realized mentally I just wasn't ready for it with certain body parts. I was able to generate enough intensity on hams, quads, and back thickness; the rest I just could not push far enough. I went to another program to build up some more and I will give DC another go in about 3 1/2 months after my contest prep.

Those are some impressive numbers. Especially drug free.

What exactly let you know you couldn't push hard enough on the other exercises / body parts? Were you not making much progress with the rest pause sets or what?

Out of curiosity what other program have you temporarily gone to?

[nextBIGone]

Pumped340,

Yes you can give DC a go...only if you ditch the gay avatar...jk. But seriously

[jcross485]

Those are some impressive numbers. Especially drug free.

What exactly let you know you couldn't push hard enough on the other exercises / body parts? Were you not making much progress with the rest pause sets or what?

Out of curiosity what other program have you temporarily gone to?

Thanks, I appreciate it. Just 6+ years of hard work and focusing on the basics.

What let me know was a combination of the mirror and log book. My chest, shoulder, arm, and back width numbers went up but not nearly as fast as the ham, quad, or back thickness numbers. I also noticed my back looked thicker and more detailed but width did not improve proportionately. My chest was not quite as full as it was while on my previous programming (Sheiko). Arms did look decent; shoulders looked better when I was doing 3 sets of rear delts superset with medial delts every time I was in the gym.

I actually really like the rest/pause sets. I do think that Rest Pause sets as described by DC himself, Muscle Rounds, and Myo-Reps are all great and use them for my assistance/accessory work currently.

To be honest, my legs will respond to anything I throw at them because mentally, I am able to access that level of intensity that's needed. For some reason, when training legs and back thickness (ESP deads), I am able to keep grinding out rep after rep until true failure.

What it comes down to, for me, is learning how to tap into that highest gear that's needed to make DC work, on all body parts and not just a select few.

I am currently back to running Sheiko, albeit slightly modified, as I am prepping for my first show and my work schedule prevents me from spending 2+ hours in the gym. Yes, some sessions can take that long.

What I have found through trial and error is that I respond well to higher frequency.

I am incorporating various intensity techniques into my assistance or accessory work in order to (hopefully) prepare myself to give DC another chance after my contest.

I feel as though DC makes perfect sense to me in theory, and after seeing the monsters it's created, I want to see what it can do for me. But in being honest with myself, I just wasn't ready when I tried it. If I continued training that way, I wasn't doing anybody a disservice but myself.

[Pumped340]

Thanks, I appreciate it. Just 6+ years of hard work and focusing on the basics.

What let me know was a combination of the mirror and log book. My chest, shoulder, arm, and back width numbers went up but not nearly as fast as the ham, quad, or back thickness numbers. I also noticed my back looked thicker and more detailed but width did not improve proportionately. My chest was not quite as full as it was while on my previous programming (Sheiko). Arms did look decent; shoulders looked better when I was doing 3 sets of rear delts superset with medial delts every time I was in the gym.

I actually really like the rest/pause sets. I do think that Rest Pause sets as described by DC himself, Muscle Rounds, and Myo-Reps are all great and use them for my assistance/accessory work currently.

To be honest, my legs will respond to anything I throw at them because mentally, I am able to access that level of intensity that's needed. For some reason, when training legs and back thickness (ESP deads), I am able to keep grinding out rep after rep until true failure.

What it comes down to, for me, is learning how to tap into that highest gear that's needed to make DC work, on all body parts and not just a select few.

I am currently back to running Sheiko, albeit slightly modified, as I am prepping for my first show and my work schedule prevents me from spending 2+ hours in the gym. Yes, some sessions can take that long.

What I have found through trial and error is that I respond well to higher frequency.

I am incorporating various intensity techniques into my assistance or accessory work in order to (hopefully) prepare myself to give DC another chance after my contest.

I feel as though DC makes perfect sense to me in theory, and after seeing the monsters it's created, I want to see what it can do for me. But in being honest with myself, I just wasn't ready when I tried it. If I continued training that way, I wasn't doing anybody a disservice but myself.

It's interesting to me that what you made the most progress with was hams, quads and back thickness.....these are the muscle groups that do not use rest pause right? (It's been awhile since I read through all of the stickies).

Do you think maybe your delts and whatnot looked better with more sets and frequency because there was more of a constant pump going on? And not actually more muscle growth?

Just not sure how I could "not generate enough intensity". I could see a certain routine not working out as well for me as others, but as far as intensity if it tells me to go to failure I will....like why not just push harder? lol maybe I'm oversimplifying here just trying to understand how you couldn't generate the right intensity and why you feel that was the issue vs it just not being the right routine for you.

[homonunculus]

Pumped,

I'll just say that if you're not sure, then.... <I bet you can finish the sentence...>



-S

[Pumped340]

Pumped,

I'll just say that if you're not sure, then.... <I bet you can finish the sentence...>



-S

Hey Scott,

Honestly I feel like most indicators would point towards yes lol but with something like DC it just seemed right to ask someone like you first on your opinion based on my experience level and upcoming situation.

Thanks

[martin_h]

It's interesting to me that what you made the most progress with was hams, quads and back thickness.....these are the muscle groups that do not use rest pause right? (It's been awhile since I read through all of the stickies).

Do you think maybe your delts and whatnot looked better with more sets and frequency because there was more of a constant pump going on? And not actually more muscle growth?

Just not sure how I could "not generate enough intensity". I could see a certain routine not working out as well for me as others, but as far as intensity if it tells me to go to failure I will....like why not just push harder? lol maybe I'm oversimplifying here just trying to understand how you couldn't generate the right intensity and why you feel that was the issue vs it just not being the right routine for you.

Pumped just to chime in..
Hammies are RP On lying leg curls/seated leg curls..IE where you can grind out rep after rep safely without putting yourself in a precarious position for an injury.
If you are SLDL and Sumo pressing for Hammies then it's 1 straight set at 15-24 reps. Same reason that applies to quads and Back Thick.

I think with DC training failure for me and how I understood it was fighting for reps. IE you Incline bench ... First set 7 reps...reps 1-4 were 'easy' (relatively speaking of course), 5 was difficult..6 was hard, but managed to lock it easy enough still.. <<-- most people stop here and assume failiure, however (again FOR ME) BANG 7 reps.. fought and fought like hell to lock this out..at one point felt like the ceiling was pressing against the weight BUT I got it..true failiure..Each subsequent RP set will follow this path, albeit with less reps.

Jcross..do you mean during the week after DC upper body your shoulders for example seemed comparativly weaker/looked worse than when you used higher volume?
Perhaps due to the swelling with higher volume workout?

[jcross485]

It's interesting to me that what you made the most progress with was hams, quads and back thickness.....these are the muscle groups that do not use rest pause right? (It's been awhile since I read through all of the stickies).

Do you think maybe your delts and whatnot looked better with more sets and frequency because there was more of a constant pump going on? And not actually more muscle growth?

Just not sure how I could "not generate enough intensity". I could see a certain routine not working out as well for me as others, but as far as intensity if it tells me to go to failure I will....like why not just push harder? lol maybe I'm oversimplifying here just trying to understand how you couldn't generate the right intensity and why you feel that was the issue vs it just not being the right routine for you.

Whether my delts looked better from more sets and more frequency, more muscle or not, is somewhat irrelevant to me right now. They were pumped 3-4x a week, but that does not mean they were necessarily pumped the other 3-4 days a week they weren't trained. All I know is they looked better training them 3-4x a week with a few sets of rear delt s/s medial delt. Because I am in the process of prepping for a show (yes, my first...I will not hide I'm not an expert nor a seasoned competitor), what is most important to me is how they look when I get on stage. If keeping them constantly pumped and full is what will make them look best in 15 weeks, that's what I need to do at this point.

Also, you could very well be correct that DC is not for me and I would be willing to accept that. I do want to give it another fair shot in the future before I make that conclusion though. When it comes to training, I have no ego and I am more than willing to admit if I am not fit for a program. I know it sounds silly, but for some strange reason, I can mentally force myself to grind out rep after rep on certain body parts of movements. On others, as soon as things started slowing down, I would feel like the body part I was training would give out and I couldn't get another rep. A great example for me is triceps...when I do CGBP, the rep before I hit failure is practically the same speed as my first; however, when my triceps give out, they are gone and I am not able to keep grinding out the reps like I should or need to in order to make a lower volume routine work.

Please take my opinion with a grain of salt as I am not an expert. I do feel, from experience, that in order to make a lower volume routine work, you need to be able to dig deep and grind out rep after rep, no matter how fast or slow the concentric (obv the eccentric should always be slow and controlled). I am able to do that with some body parts, not others. It's a mental block for me and I am willing to admit that; because I know the issue, I am continuing to work on it. For me, because of the mental block, I need to hit certain movements or body parts with a little more volume in order to compensate for the fact that once I start getting close to failure, that mental block kicks in.

If you give DC a try, it may be the perfect fit for you and frankly, that would be awesome! If you are able to keep grinding out those tough reps, it may be the program that you grow the best on. I have nothing but respect for anybody who is in the gym trying to improve their numbers, their body, or both. The fitness community is growing, but there is still a very small niche or group who are willing to go the extra mile in their training and nutrition and I embrace the fact we all are embarking on that journey. Whether people do that with high volume, low volume, high frequency, low frequency, high ft/low carb diets, low fat/high carb diets, I don't care. What may work for you might not for me, and vice versa. We all need to support each other as negativity runs too rampant in the industry.

Jcross..do you mean during the week after DC upper body your shoulders for example seemed comparativly weaker/looked worse than when you used higher volume?
Perhaps due to the swelling with higher volume workout?

Overall, they just seemed to not look quite as round or full, similar to my chest. Now I was shoulders with 3 sets or so of a rear delt movement superset with a medial delt movement 3-4x a week. If that is high volume, then it might just be that. As I mentioned above, whatever the reason behind it is a moot point because in 15 weeks, I need to look the best I can and if what I was doing will make them look the best, that's what I need to do. It's nothing against DC or anybody who trains that way because if it works for you or them, that's awesome you/they found the answer! At the time I tried DC (the two way, by the book), it did not pan out had I hoped. I have not given up though and will try it again, hence why I still lurk/read here and post occasionally.

[jcross485]

Now I do want to follow up and say I am not, in any way, dissing DC or saying it does not work because it clearly turns guys into monsters and freaks! What I am saying is if you try it, be honest with yourself and evaluate your progress as objectively as possible. I'm not saying DC did not work for me, actually it's quite the opposite. I was not cut out for DC when I tried it.

[Pumped340]

Pumped just to chime in..
Hammies are RP On lying leg curls/seated leg curls..IE where you can grind out rep after rep safely without putting yourself in a precarious position for an injury.
If you are SLDL and Sumo pressing for Hammies then it's 1 straight set at 15-24 reps. Same reason that applies to quads and Back Thick.

I think with DC training failure for me and how I understood it was fighting for reps. IE you Incline bench ... First set 7 reps...reps 1-4 were 'easy' (relatively speaking of course), 5 was difficult..6 was hard, but managed to lock it easy enough still.. <<-- most people stop here and assume failiure, however (again FOR ME) BANG 7 reps.. fought and fought like hell to lock this out..at one point felt like the ceiling was pressing against the weight BUT I got it..true failiure..Each subsequent RP set will follow this path, albeit with less reps.

OK that's what I thought about the Hamstring movements.

I definitely can push myself to failure and beyond, and actually when I was less experienced one problem was that I pushed myself to failure on too many sets. Now that I do moderate volume I have learned to back off a little and only push the last set or so per exercise to failure. I guess I will have to unlearn the habit of not taking each set to utmost failure if I try DC.

Whether my delts looked better from more sets and more frequency, more muscle or not, is somewhat irrelevant to me right now. They were pumped 3-4x a week, but that does not mean they were necessarily pumped the other 3-4 days a week they weren't trained. All I know is they looked better training them 3-4x a week with a few sets of rear delt s/s medial delt. Because I am in the process of prepping for a show (yes, my first...I will not hide I'm not an expert nor a seasoned competitor), what is most important to me is how they look when I get on stage. If keeping them constantly pumped and full is what will make them look best in 15 weeks, that's what I need to do at this point.

Also, you could very well be correct that DC is not for me and I would be willing to accept that. I do want to give it another fair shot in the future before I make that conclusion though. When it comes to training, I have no ego and I am more than willing to admit if I am not fit for a program. I know it sounds silly, but for some strange reason, I can mentally force myself to grind out rep after rep on certain body parts of movements. On others, as soon as things started slowing down, I would feel like the body part I was training would give out and I couldn't get another rep. A great example for me is triceps...when I do CGBP, the rep before I hit failure is practically the same speed as my first; however, when my triceps give out, they are gone and I am not able to keep grinding out the reps like I should or need to in order to make a lower volume routine work.

Please take my opinion with a grain of salt as I am not an expert. I do feel, from experience, that in order to make a lower volume routine work, you need to be able to dig deep and grind out rep after rep, no matter how fast or slow the concentric (obv the eccentric should always be slow and controlled). I am able to do that with some body parts, not others. It's a mental block for me and I am willing to admit that; because I know the issue, I am continuing to work on it. For me, because of the mental block, I need to hit certain movements or body parts with a little more volume in order to compensate for the fact that once I start getting close to failure, that mental block kicks in.

If you give DC a try, it may be the perfect fit for you and frankly, that would be awesome! If you are able to keep grinding out those tough reps, it may be the program that you grow the best on. I have nothing but respect for anybody who is in the gym trying to improve their numbers, their body, or both. The fitness community is growing, but there is still a very small niche or group who are willing to go the extra mile in their training and nutrition and I embrace the fact we all are embarking on that journey. Whether people do that with high volume, low volume, high frequency, low frequency, high ft/low carb diets, low fat/high carb diets, I don't care. What may work for you might not for me, and vice versa. We all need to support each other as negativity runs too rampant in the industry.



Overall, they just seemed to not look quite as round or full, similar to my chest. Now I was shoulders with 3 sets or so of a rear delt movement superset with a medial delt movement 3-4x a week. If that is high volume, then it might just be that. As I mentioned above, whatever the reason behind it is a moot point because in 15 weeks, I need to look the best I can and if what I was doing will make them look the best, that's what I need to do. It's nothing against DC or anybody who trains that way because if it works for you or them, that's awesome you/they found the answer! At the time I tried DC (the two way, by the book), it did not pan out had I hoped. I have not given up though and will try it again, hence why I still lurk/read here and post occasionally.

Yea with the delts I was mostly saying how maybe the actual muscle growth is faster with DC (or maybe not) but likely the higher volume just gives it a temporary good pump that makes it look better. I'd definitely do whatever makes it look better in the week or two before the contest but up until then whatever method actually makes the muscle grow most (or retain the most muscle while cutting).

I can relate to that regarding some muscles giving out faster than others. Triceps is a good example for me too, I'll speed along with CGBP to say 7 reps and then 8 is a grinder and I can't get 9. I think part of that is because with movements like squats, deads, etc you can take a short break between reps which really helps you grind out some more. Versus something like CGBP where even if you lock out there is still a lot of tension in the triceps. In either case though I definitely can/will push to failure on every set if that is what is called for, which I guess it would be given the low volume.

I would hope DC would work for me. Not expecting any magic but these next 9 months or so will be very important for me as they will be the last time I am "enhanced", so I'd like to make the most of them in any way possible.

[martin_h]

To be fair jcross..a lot of people who jump into DC would do well to listen to what your saying. Ego's and delusion shouldn't get in the way of weight training in any form (strongman/powerlifting/bodybuilding/crossfit etc) it will only set you up to fail.
Hey man, you have been completely honest with yourself and if you feel that way, then as long as you witness progression and have somebody who is giving you an honest opinion then stick with what you like doing and feel is working better (as long as it does)..because if perhaps it turned out it was all in your mind and infact it wasn't any different, then that itself was a delusional.
If it works and you see it working then its all good. As long as it is.

In no way am I slating you hear, just using what you said as the example for my point.

Good luck in your comp