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  • My review and questions after 6 weeks DC training

    I have ran DC training for 6 weeks now and have a few questions. I have made very good strength gains on all upper body movements. I can't say much about size gains as I started this routine right after PCT. Back to strength gains for upper body, every single lift aside from this week has gone up absolutely huge. Far more than I have ever gained natural before. This week a few lifts slowed or stopped as i'm approaching over-training and am going into a deloading stage. I should also note that i'm using the rest pause technique. Okay so now to lower body... I have went from 405x8 to 405x6 on squats. Obviously you can't really incorporate rest pause here. Leg's and back have always went up the best for me and I have gotten myself up to 500lbs on squats before. I think this is actually the first time I have ever gone backwards on legs minus PCT. So I'm wondering what you guys think about this and how I can improve my lower body training. I'm thinking I'm going to have to add a little volume to make up for the inability to rest pause for legs. Whats your thoughts?

    One other thing.. I have never gotten stretch marks before in my life. I mean obviously on cycles I have grew much faster and been bigger than I am now. I am developing huge stretch marks around my armpit area and I think it's due to the extreme stretching.

    With that said. DC training is the best approach to training I have taken, I am now a believer of low volume HIT. With a few adjustments this routines going to be my bread and butter to off cycle training.

  • #2
    Originally posted by haulinbass View Post
    Okay so now to lower body... I have went from 405x8 to 405x6 on squats. Obviously you can't really incorporate rest pause here. Leg's and back have always went up the best for me and I have gotten myself up to 500lbs on squats before. I think this is actually the first time I have ever gone backwards on legs minus PCT. So I'm wondering what you guys think about this and how I can improve my lower body training. I'm thinking I'm going to have to add a little volume to make up for the inability to rest pause for legs. Whats your thoughts?
    Are you doing your widowmakers?


    2017 NPC National Championships Classic Physique, Class D - 4th Place
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    • #3
      Yeah I am. Pushing to near death

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      • #4
        Before we start bastardizing DC...a few things from me, a newbie (heh)...

        1. If you are doing DC properly, quads are the very last exercise. As a result, it is likely you are just suffering the ramifications of doing 4 exercises beforehand that zapped your system. Now I don't know how you trained prior to DC, but I am assuming you were doing quads as your first exercise so this leads me to believe you were a lot more fresh to do squats.

        2. As for the stretch marks, it could be from the extreme stretches OR the fact that rest-pause can really pump them up and stretch out your lats. It does for me, at least. Nonetheless, rock them with pride. Just a quick, daily reminder of whatever you're doing is working.

        3. And lastly, without exception, "how's your diet, how's your stress levels, how's your sleeping, any changes in your daily routine, etc. etc."
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        • #5
          Originally posted by haulinbass View Post
          I have ran DC training for 6 weeks now and have a few questions. I have made very good strength gains on all upper body movements. I can't say much about size gains as I started this routine right after PCT. Back to strength gains for upper body, every single lift aside from this week has gone up absolutely huge. Far more than I have ever gained natural before. This week a few lifts slowed or stopped as i'm approaching over-training and am going into a deloading stage. I should also note that i'm using the rest pause technique. Okay so now to lower body... I have went from 405x8 to 405x6 on squats. Obviously you can't really incorporate rest pause here. Leg's and back have always went up the best for me and I have gotten myself up to 500lbs on squats before. I think this is actually the first time I have ever gone backwards on legs minus PCT. So I'm wondering what you guys think about this and how I can improve my lower body training. I'm thinking I'm going to have to add a little volume to make up for the inability to rest pause for legs. Whats your thoughts?

          One other thing.. I have never gotten stretch marks before in my life. I mean obviously on cycles I have grew much faster and been bigger than I am now. I am developing huge stretch marks around my armpit area and I think it's due to the extreme stretching.

          With that said. DC training is the best approach to training I have taken, I am now a believer of low volume HIT. With a few adjustments this routines going to be my bread and butter to off cycle training.
          How much weight did you gain during this period (post PCT) when your squat has stalled?...

          [If you maintained or even lost weight and muscle, then maintaining (essentially) on squats isn't so bad, especially given where you might have been hormonally. Also, you didn't mention if blood work confirmed that your PCT was effective.]

          If you have been gaining previously on squats, i.e., had them in your training rotation, this would make more sense. (It was time to switch them out.)

          Either way, the bottom line is that if you're not gaining on an exercise (regardless of strength gains or losses for other exercises or muscle groups, hormonal status, color of your underwear, or what have you), then you switch that exercise out.

          So, the issue here actually (without trying to be a smart ass) seems like it boils down to not switching out an exercise when you should have, according to DC training. Simple as that. Sounds like it's time for another quad exercise.

          (Kudos on the upper body gains!)

          -Scott
          Last edited by homonunculus; 12-17-2011, 07:18 PM.
          The Book Has Arrived!
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          Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


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          2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
          2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
          2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

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          • #6
            Originally posted by haulinbass View Post
            I have ran DC training for 6 weeks now and have a few questions. I have made very good strength gains on all upper body movements. I can't say much about size gains as I started this routine right after PCT. Back to strength gains for upper body, every single lift aside from this week has gone up absolutely huge. Far more than I have ever gained natural before. This week a few lifts slowed or stopped as i'm approaching over-training and am going into a deloading stage. I should also note that i'm using the rest pause technique. Okay so now to lower body... I have went from 405x8 to 405x6 on squats. Obviously you can't really incorporate rest pause here. Leg's and back have always went up the best for me and I have gotten myself up to 500lbs on squats before. I think this is actually the first time I have ever gone backwards on legs minus PCT. So I'm wondering what you guys think about this and how I can improve my lower body training. I'm thinking I'm going to have to add a little volume to make up for the inability to rest pause for legs. Whats your thoughts?

            One other thing.. I have never gotten stretch marks before in my life. I mean obviously on cycles I have grew much faster and been bigger than I am now. I am developing huge stretch marks around my armpit area and I think it's due to the extreme stretching.

            With that said. DC training is the best approach to training I have taken, I am now a believer of low volume HIT. With a few adjustments this routines going to be my bread and butter to off cycle training.


            First off, congrats on the progress.

            A couple of questions/observations. If DC is working so well for you while you are "natural", why would you want to switch to something else when you are "on"?

            Although similiar in nature, the time between blasts is referred to as a cruise, not a deload.

            This is not to sound nit-picky, but DC is not really low volume HIT program.
            2008 WABDL World Bench Press Champioships, 2nd place 275lb submaster division state record bench press
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            1998 USAPL State Championships 1st place 275lb division
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            • #7
              i´m wondering how your quads are the problem ...

              since im working with DC my quads are getting stronger like i´d be on juice (at least i think it would be like that)

              maybe you just havent get used to the higher frequence yet or its time to change the exercise

              and even if your squats are going a little worse than usually ... isn´t it better to go from strength to stregth in all other lifts and take the 2 reps less in squats then ?

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              • #8
                You can not and will not get stretch marks from stretching. It is from size gains only. Skin is far too elastic to develop stretch marks from a temporary stretch,, if that could happen you would get them every thanksgiving or after every big meal.
                Follow my NEW journal if you please:


                http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=48304

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                • #9
                  LearningDC, I know Dante does not like DC being called a form of HIT but I never really understood why. It may be because of all the negative crap written about HIT by idiots over the years...IDK... But IMHO DC is low volume high intensity training. I don't see what's wrong with calling it a form of HIT.
                  Follow my NEW journal if you please:


                  http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=48304

                  "They say I'm no good...cause I'm so hood, rich folks do not want me around" 50

                  "You are you. That is truer than true. There is no one alive who is Youer than You."
                  Dr. Seuss


                  I would like to thank all the stupid people of the world. Without you guys I would only be average.


                  "Tell them bitches get a stick I'm done leading the blind"
                  Nicki Minaj

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                  • #10
                    I still dont see how its considered low volume. Besides, DC Training is now classified as Volhit.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by dakota1981 View Post
                      I still dont see how its considered low volume. Besides, DC Training is now classified as Volhit.
                      I think any program that has you doing just one exercise per muscle group on a given day is going to be considered low volume by most.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by thedunhill225 View Post
                        LearningDC, I know Dante does not like DC being called a form of HIT but I never really understood why. It may be because of all the negative crap written about HIT by idiots over the years...IDK... But IMHO DC is low volume high intensity training. I don't see what's wrong with calling it a form of HIT.
                        Originally posted by dakota1981 View Post
                        I still dont see how its considered low volume. Besides, DC Training is now classified as Volhit.
                        Originally posted by JimPhreak View Post
                        I think any program that has you doing just one exercise per muscle group on a given day is going to be considered low volume by most.
                        Training volume can be measured relative to each training session or relative to the the week or some other period of time (month, year, what have you), i.e., when FREQUENCY of training is considered.

                        http://www.intensemuscle.com/showpos...14&postcount=1

                        but I wanted to post it here because IM truly getting tired of this HIT/Mentzer argument

                        Rest pausing as Ive known it has always been sets of singles. Mentzer did 6 rest pause reps with singles. If i was smart I would of labeled all of my methods different names but my ego isnt that skyhigh that I have this urge to be "the guy who invented it"--I could really give a shit-this is about helping people put on muscle not making some kind of household name for myself. My methods are "rest pausing" for 11-15 reps in 3 rest pause breakdowns....I do not know of anyone else who ever was doing rest pauses for anything other than singles (correct me if Im wrong). I should of named it some fancy name like "Set continuance reps" or something and copyrighted it so everyone would of said Dante invented that but like I said I dont care and just called it rest pausing because it seemed kind of similiar with the breathing between failure points. As far as Mentzer and HIT--IS ANYONE IN THIS FORUM GOING TO SAY THEY ARE DOING ST? "Slacker Training"? Because I bet 99% of the people in this forum are going to say they lift as hard as they can so we are all doing HIT training. I have no understanding how people have to throw things in categories or its becomes just some kind of clusterfuck to them and they cant comprehend it otherwise. I will state this right out. I dont agree with Mentzers diet, Mentzers over obsession with overtraining, doing one set every 2 weeks to a month(after he started out obsessive compulsive about doing forced reps, negatives, partials etc etc after every set) the guy went one way and then went off the deep end the other way. Heres a novel approach--Dantes thoughts--thats all this is--my opinions on what I think builds muscle mass the fastest way possible and so far I think im building one hell of a track record proving it. Both Mentzer and I like low volume ok there is a similiarity. What else is there? I train bodyparts 2x every 8 days which is similiar to how Ronnie Coleman does it so why not call it a version of Ronnies training--LOL? Mentzer is doing one set every 2 weeks to one month as stated. I believe in extremes in food intake to make your body a fat burning muscle building blast furnace, Mentzer believed in something akin to 50 more calories a day over BMR if Im not mistaken (I dont and have never read his stuff to any great deal but I think i read that somewhere in the past in a magazine). I believe in extreme stretching, carb cuttoffs, olive oil for weight gain problems, blasting for 4-8 weeks and cruising for 2-3 weeks. How the hell is that similiar to anything Mentzer believed in? He did low volume I do low volume--end of story--thats the only similiarity. Honestly i think anyone doing one set per month and getting 12 growth phases in a year for a bodypart is a complete utter idiot..... while my guys are training bodyparts about 92 times a year and crushing you in gains. YOU TELL ME WHO IS GOING TO GROW FASTER? 12 growth phases versus 92?!?! Hence my reasons for low volume--so you can recover and train that bodypart again.
                        I dont have any clue how Mentzer liked to warmup but Ill have a guy warmup thru 3-6 sets if he needs to and is using huge weights. I dont count warmup sets like alot of guys do--its the worksets I count....so in all honesty my workouts are much more like the norm than this HIT category everyone wants to throw everything that is low volume in. You want to know the freaking difference between HIT and regular training by and large? One version counts warmups sets and one version doesnt. Thats about it. Now dont all you HIT obsessive compulsives feel dumb? The only difference is that guy over there did 135x12 225x8 275x6 350x11 and counted it as 4 sets and you disregarded the 3 warmup sets and did your one workset for 350x11 and called it one set. I swear to god people have to put things in categories and label them or its just some kind of scattered explosion in their heads. There will not be anyone coming out with anything new and revolutionary in bodybuilding guys, Im not going to have people lifting with water jugs and underwater squatting....it will all be derived somewhat from what people did earlier....I keep hearing people say "well its nothing new" well hell then why wasnt anyone doing it earlier then and why the hell do I get so much shit about my methods then if its "nothing new"? I put together what I thought would work best concerning all things bodybuilding....every facet of my methods AND ANYONE ELSES were probably used sometime or the other by some guy somewhere who started weightlifting back in the old days. Robert Kennedy from Musclemag likes to tout himself as the developer of the pre-exhaustion principle. Does he really believe that? Does anyone? There was probably some guy named Skippy Walker in Akron Ohio that was doing that back in the 40-50's just because he thought it might work. I feel im making people grow faster than any other way of training so if you think my methods are similiar to someone elses in the past then dont do mine at all and do that "someone elses" and lets see if you put on muscle mass as fast as my trainees are!
                        -------

                        -S
                        The Book Has Arrived!
                        The Book Has Arrived!

                        Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


                        www.TrueNutrition.com

                        2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
                        2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
                        2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

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                        • #13
                          Stretch marks to me means that your size is growing too much for your body to handle. I haven't had stretch marks in a while so I'll be pretty pleased once I get my next one, maybe doing DC training(:

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by vcjha View Post
                            Stretch marks to me means that your size is growing too much for your body to handle. I haven't had stretch marks in a while so I'll be pretty pleased once I get my next one, maybe doing DC training(:
                            Stretch marks are very prevalent on fat people......they might not be the best gauge for muscle growth .....if you are fairly lean and gaining weight (muscle), then I guess you can say its a badge of honor and marvel at them in the mirror like I did when I first started growing......very exciting times! Lol
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by theroymccoy View Post
                              1. If you are doing DC properly, quads are the very last exercise. As a result, it is likely you are just suffering the ramifications of doing 4 exercises beforehand that zapped your system. Now I don't know how you trained prior to DC, but I am assuming you were doing quads as your first exercise so this leads me to believe you were a lot more fresh to do squats.
                              Actually, I'd like to bring up something I've been questioning for a while and hope some experienced members can weigh in on it.

                              I've heard for the longest time that training something like your legs, a very large lower-body group, has a natural anabolic response and increases test production for that time being, ie a very large burst of natural test production:

                              Squats / Deadlifts and Release of Testosterone and Growth Hormone
                              October 7th, 2007 by Paul Johnson


                              In bodybuilding forums, you’ll constantly see bodybuilders tell each other to work on their legs, mainly with squats and deadlift excercises. Most beginner bodybuilders hate working legs and look for an excuse to not work them. They are told it helps release testosterone, growth hormone, and will increase overall body muscle mass. Is there studies that support all these claims?

                              Testosterone and GH levels after squats & deadlifts:

                              Resistance training in general, increases testosterone and growth hormone, during and immediately after post excercise. It has been shown in many studies, including a published study Int J Sports Med. 1991 Apr;12(2):228-35 done on both men and women during resistance excercise. Squats and deadlifts increase GH and Testosterone, more than other compound excercises during excercise.

                              There is however, no significant studies that show that resistance excercise, directly leads to higher hormone levels long term. In fact, for a day or 2 post-excercise, many studies show LH and testosterone decline, while cortisol increases. In other words, building yourself up to a 200 lb ripped bodybuilder doesn’t directly increase your testosterone levels, from when you were smaller. But you might though have higher testosterone levels, due to better eating, supplementation, and working out, as a result of the bodybuilding lifestyle. The increased cortisol levels and lower testosterone, is also why overtraining is such an easy state to enter. We have to allow our body to recuperate itself, before doing more weight lifting.

                              Long term effects from squatting and deadlifting:

                              The benefit for doing leg excercises, appears from research not to be from increasing long term natural levels of testosterone and GH. I believe however the large burst of testosterone and other hormones during leg excercises, are the major reasons why squats and deadlifts are very important for overall muscle building. It’s the same reason why a bench press is more effective mass builder than a chest flye workout. Why? because the compound bench press is going to release more testosterone and GH in a workout than a chest flye.

                              The large burst of anabolic hormones resulting from squats and deadlifts, allows most of your muscles to benefit from this release simultaneously. Squats and deadlifts work many muscles simultaneously in the body and will allow most of your body to get some stimulation from the release of the hormones during the workout. The testosterone and GH released, is very crucial for being a catalyst for your muscle growth. It won’t be released as much in the smaller compound excercises, such as bench press. Therefore doing smaller compound excercises, would not be able to makeup for the benefit of having leg workouts in your routine.

                              Most experienced bodybuilders know all too well, how important leg excercises are for overall mass. You’ve probably seen the guys walking in the gym who look like lightbulbs (big upper body, but chicken legs). That has made many bodybuilders question the idea that leg excercises always equals bigger upper body. One must keep in mind we don’t know if they are using steroids, which would make it a little easier to gain upper body mass without leg excercises. On the flipside, it would also be harder post cycle for a steroid user just to keep his gains. These people probably also have excellent upper body genetics and years of training experience. If they worked harder on leg excercises, they would be even bigger.
                              Accessed here:
                              http://www.bodybuildingweb.net/blog/...rowth-hormone/

                              Has the knowledge base for this changed over time? For the sake of having increased test benefit my bis/forearms, my B1 and B2 days have become (for probably the last 2 blasts) Calves - Hammies - Quads - Bis - Forearms. Call it a placebo, but ever since changing the order of my B days to that, I really do feel a decent amount of increase in both size and strength in my arms.

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