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Some people are just losing the concept of DC training.

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  • gaetan
    replied
    good post

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  • Shawn "Future" Bellon
    replied
    Bump

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  • 0001Delta
    replied
    Originally posted by Deepsquat3 View Post
    Incline press 405 for 12 reps
    smith military press 330 for 12 reps
    deadlift 550 for 12 reps
    close grip bench press 405 for 12 reps
    deep squat 500 for 20 reps
    pulldown 400 for 15 reps
    dumbell curl 80's cleanly for 20 reps
    etc etc etc etc


    Shit,,,35 years of lifting and I only got close to the squat ## and still missed that by 9 ...I suck
    Well imma start using that list as "stuff I need to do before I'm 21."

    And I felt great for doing pulldowns with 280....

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  • Deepsquat3
    replied
    Incline press 405 for 12 reps
    smith military press 330 for 12 reps
    deadlift 550 for 12 reps
    close grip bench press 405 for 12 reps
    deep squat 500 for 20 reps
    pulldown 400 for 15 reps
    dumbell curl 80's cleanly for 20 reps
    etc etc etc etc


    Shit,,,35 years of lifting and I only got close to the squat ## and still missed that by 9 ...I suck

    Leave a comment:


  • WorldStrike
    replied
    Will send to you. No homo.

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  • homonunculus
    replied
    Originally posted by WorldStrike View Post
    Homonunculus - I will definitely be staying with the 2-way split...I actually wasn't planning on switching to the 3-way, I was just curious if you saw any negatives within doing the WM exercise directly after the body part you've trained if you still have several muscle groups that may be affected a bit too much by that widowmaker. Your logic behind that sounds true. In my case, my shoulders have always been my weakest point, so a chest widowmaker would seriously hamper what I would be capable of lifting on my shoulder set. But, as I said, I really just did mean it for research purposes, I hadn't planned to switch.

    Thanks for the question about progress - the pics you see there were sort of cataloged as a "before DC" type of set...in the past year I've been insanely happy with how my lifts have been going up and how my body has been growing. Not anywhere near where I'd like to be obviously, but anyone rarely is. The two big reasons behind this are A) Started eating way more food than I was comfortable eating, and B) I discovered that my body responds much better to lower rep, higher weight exercises, and even more importantly, my body grows much better with a focus on a slow, controlled negative and an explosive positive rep (I think nearly everyone grows better by this, but that doesn't stop a lot of people I see daily).

    I think I may have been a bit too hasty with choosing the term "brutal"...I'm more than on-board for pushing every set to absolute failure and then trying to stretch it even further, I simply was thinking in terms of how a body part (specific for different people) might suffer progress if it occurred after that widowmaker, I'm sorry if that came off wrong.

    I'm just finishing up a cruise right now, and had already planned out a 2-way split for the next 8-10 weeks coming up, don't worry, I don't plan to hop on a 3-way anytime soon haha, I won't be ready for a while.

    Thanks for taking the time to respond, I will document your knowledge for the future.
    Sure, man, no problem.

    (Actually, I'd be interested in follow-up pics. As you recall from the link I posted, you were getting some shit for even doing DC in the first place...)

    -S

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  • WorldStrike
    replied
    Homonunculus - I will definitely be staying with the 2-way split...I actually wasn't planning on switching to the 3-way, I was just curious if you saw any negatives within doing the WM exercise directly after the body part you've trained if you still have several muscle groups that may be affected a bit too much by that widowmaker. Your logic behind that sounds true. In my case, my shoulders have always been my weakest point, so a chest widowmaker would seriously hamper what I would be capable of lifting on my shoulder set. But, as I said, I really just did mean it for research purposes, I hadn't planned to switch.

    Thanks for the question about progress - the pics you see there were sort of cataloged as a "before DC" type of set...in the past year I've been insanely happy with how my lifts have been going up and how my body has been growing. Not anywhere near where I'd like to be obviously, but anyone rarely is. The two big reasons behind this are A) Started eating way more food than I was comfortable eating, and B) I discovered that my body responds much better to lower rep, higher weight exercises, and even more importantly, my body grows much better with a focus on a slow, controlled negative and an explosive positive rep (I think nearly everyone grows better by this, but that doesn't stop a lot of people I see daily).

    I think I may have been a bit too hasty with choosing the term "brutal"...I'm more than on-board for pushing every set to absolute failure and then trying to stretch it even further, I simply was thinking in terms of how a body part (specific for different people) might suffer progress if it occurred after that widowmaker, I'm sorry if that came off wrong.

    I'm just finishing up a cruise right now, and had already planned out a 2-way split for the next 8-10 weeks coming up, don't worry, I don't plan to hop on a 3-way anytime soon haha, I won't be ready for a while.

    Thanks for taking the time to respond, I will document your knowledge for the future.

    Leave a comment:


  • homonunculus
    replied
    Originally posted by WorldStrike View Post
    Homonunculus - do you feel WMs performed before the end of the workout could have a negative impact on your remaining sets? I just noticed that in the workout detailed above, he has Back Width WMs occurring before his back thickness exercise, which to me would certainly limit the weight I could lift on my last movement. Same with doing a chest widowmaker and then working my shoulders, since a lot of time the movements between the two can wear one another out, even if they aren't being directly targeted. On top of that, with the sort of taxing effect your CNS takes from a widowmaker, it just seems brutal to continue on to another exercise after executing one.

    I suppose what I mean is, would you prefer widowmakers all be done at the end of a workout, or, if you plan to do more than one within a workout, they be placed directly after the exercise for that respective muscle group?

    Thanks.
    Hey WS,

    I'm in "Blunt Mode" here - it seems like the best way to answer this for ya. (Nothing personal meant, my man.)

    In your case, I'd stick with the 2-way, still, unless you've make stupendous gains in the past year or so: http://www.intensemuscle.com/showpos...1&postcount=19


    Yes, it is brutal - most definitely. That's the point. The idea is to make a DC workout as brutal on the targeted muscle group(s) as you possibly can. Get in, kill it and get out. (This is kind of obvious, I know, but I'm goin' somewhere here... Again, don't think I'm trying to pick on you here. I really think, at least from what I know, that the 2-way would be best. I consider these big, highly viewed threads as a way to get across a message to all those that are reading, not just whoever may have asked a particular question.)

    I suspected by the way you phrased the above that your mindset wasn't quite where I personally would like to see it for someone who would be doing a 3-way. This is why I looked through your posts to find your pics. Had you said, "Do you think it's best to target those weak muscle groups by nailing them right after the regular SS or RP sets or give them a bit of rest so you can handle more weight for the WM?" then I'd have gone right to answering your question. I'd like to see you thinking: Damn, I can kill it by hitting it when it's down or hitting it with a tad more weight - I'm down for whatever works best, rather than, "Wow, that's gonna be brutal if I do it this way...."

    With these bodypart WM's they're not quite as taxing as a quad WM (e.g., done with a squat) and I (and as far as I know Dante agrees) prefer to hit them right after the regular training for a given muscle group. The WM is about using a lighter weight and pounding away at the muscle, pushing it into a novel state of extreme metabolic fatigue, so doing them when the muscle is fatigued is just dandy.

    As far as doing a width WM before thickness exercises, I'd have to evaluate the person's physique and other aspects of how they train and their physical condition. E.g., if they were lacking in thickness, too, could use the low back thickening of doing rack deads and heavy BO rows, and doing a width WM limited the weight used for those exercises, I'd prob. put the width WM after the thickness exercises. This would be especially true for someone say, who was advanced by just was weak in the posterior chain in general.

    But you do have a point r.e. the CNS wrt back. If they're using chins for a width WM and finding that, after rack deads, they're whacked and the chins are not a good targeting exercise for that reason, I might have them do something that's more isolating, like a cross-cable pulldown.

    So, generally, hit the bodypart WM after training the body part (IMO), not at the end of the workout. If, for example, a delt WM is leaving someone too wiped out to finish triceps and do a tri WM, then I'd wonder about motivation and/or training experience.

    -S

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  • WorldStrike
    replied
    Homonunculus - do you feel WMs performed before the end of the workout could have a negative impact on your remaining sets? I just noticed that in the workout detailed above, he has Back Width WMs occurring before his back thickness exercise, which to me would certainly limit the weight I could lift on my last movement. Same with doing a chest widowmaker and then working my shoulders, since a lot of time the movements between the two can wear one another out, even if they aren't being directly targeted. On top of that, with the sort of taxing effect your CNS takes from a widowmaker, it just seems brutal to continue on to another exercise after executing one.

    I suppose what I mean is, would you prefer widowmakers all be done at the end of a workout, or, if you plan to do more than one within a workout, they be placed directly after the exercise for that respective muscle group?

    Thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • homonunculus
    replied
    Hey Bud,

    As far as *widowmakers only*, I see three (beyond the quad WM) in your first rotation of pull, push legs, so yes that is a good starting point.

    -S

    Originally posted by BabyBeast05 View Post
    So many something like this would be a good starting point?

    Day 1: Biceps/Forearms/Back
    Biceps: standing DB curls for 20-30RP
    Forearms: rope cable curls for 12-20SS
    STRETCH
    Back Width: wide grip cable pulldown for 12-20RP
    Back Width WM: Rack Chins for 20-30
    Back Thickness: BB rows for 10-13 then another set for 7-9
    STRETCH

    Day 2: Chest/Shoulders/Triceps
    Chest: BB incline bench for 11-20RP
    Chest WM: machine fly/press for 20-30
    STRETCH
    Shoulders: hammer strength press for 12-20RP
    STRETCH
    Triceps: decline skull crushers for 15-25RP
    Triceps WM: dip machine with deep stretch for 20-30
    STRETCH

    Day 3: Calves/Hams/Quads
    Calves: standing calf for 15-20RP with 2 sec stretch
    STRETCH
    Adductor machine: 15-30RP
    Hams: Lying leg curls for 15-24RP
    STRETCH
    Quads: Hack squats for 16-20 then another set for 10-15
    Quads WM: Leg Press for 20-30 hard deep reps
    STRETCH

    Day 4: Biceps/Forearms/Back
    Biceps: DB hammer curls for 20-30RP
    Forearms: rope cable curls for 12-20SS
    STRETCH
    Back Width: 1 arm hammer strength row for 15-20RP
    Back Width WM: Rack chins for 20-30
    Back thickness: deadlifts for 10-13 then another set for 7-9
    STRETCH

    Day 5: Chest/Shoulders/Triceps
    Chest: BB flat bench for 15-30RP
    Chest WM: machine fly/press for 20-30
    STRETCH
    Shoulders: smith military press for 15-20RP
    STRETCH
    Triceps: overhead tricep extensions for 15-25RP
    Triceps widowmaker: dip machine with deep stretch for 20-30
    STRETCH

    Day 6: Calves/Hams/Quads
    Calves: leg press calf raise for 15-20RP with a 5sec stretch
    STRETCH
    Adductor machine: 15-30RP
    Hams: seated leg curls for 15-24RP
    STRETCH
    Quads: Squats for 16-20 then another set for 10-15
    Quads Widowmaker: Leg press for 20-30 hard deep reps
    STRETCH

    Day 7: Biceps/Forearms/Back
    Biceps: EZ bar curls for 15-24RP
    Forearms: rope cable curls for 20-30
    STRETCH
    Back Width: Yates hammer strength pulldown for 15-20RP
    Back Width WM: Rack chins for 20-30
    Back Thickness: t-bar rows for 10-13 then another set for 7-9
    STRETCH

    Day 8: Chest/Shoulders/Triceps
    Chest: hammer strength press for 15-30RP
    Chest WM: machine fly/press for 20-30
    STRETCH
    Shoulders: machine military press for 12-20RP
    STRETCH
    Triceps: CGBP for 15-25RP
    Triceps WM: dip machine with deep stretch for 20-30
    STRETCH

    Day 9: Calves/Hams/Quads
    Calves: cybex rotary calf press for 15-20RP with 5 second stretch
    STRETCH
    Adductor machine: 15-30RP
    Hams: standing leg curls for 15-24RP
    STRETCH
    Quads: front squat machine for 16-20 then another set for 10-15
    Quads WM: leg press for 20-30 hard deep reps
    STRETCH

    WMs for the areas I feel need to really improve. I need more size everywhere of course but especially chest, triceps, quads & back width
    Last edited by homonunculus; 05-22-2012, 01:50 PM.

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  • BabyBeast05
    replied
    Originally posted by homonunculus View Post
    It very well could be for some people. I would venture to say most people, really going balls to the wall, would overtrain if they tried that.

    -S
    So many something like this would be a good starting point?

    Day 1: Biceps/Forearms/Back
    Biceps: standing DB curls for 20-30RP
    Forearms: rope cable curls for 12-20SS
    STRETCH
    Back Width: wide grip cable pulldown for 12-20RP
    Back Width WM: Rack Chins for 20-30
    Back Thickness: BB rows for 10-13 then another set for 7-9
    STRETCH

    Day 2: Chest/Shoulders/Triceps
    Chest: BB incline bench for 11-20RP
    Chest WM: machine fly/press for 20-30
    STRETCH
    Shoulders: hammer strength press for 12-20RP
    STRETCH
    Triceps: decline skull crushers for 15-25RP
    Triceps WM: dip machine with deep stretch for 20-30
    STRETCH

    Day 3: Calves/Hams/Quads
    Calves: standing calf for 15-20RP with 2 sec stretch
    STRETCH
    Adductor machine: 15-30RP
    Hams: Lying leg curls for 15-24RP
    STRETCH
    Quads: Hack squats for 16-20 then another set for 10-15
    Quads WM: Leg Press for 20-30 hard deep reps
    STRETCH

    Day 4: Biceps/Forearms/Back
    Biceps: DB hammer curls for 20-30RP
    Forearms: rope cable curls for 12-20SS
    STRETCH
    Back Width: 1 arm hammer strength row for 15-20RP
    Back Width WM: Rack chins for 20-30
    Back thickness: deadlifts for 10-13 then another set for 7-9
    STRETCH

    Day 5: Chest/Shoulders/Triceps
    Chest: BB flat bench for 15-30RP
    Chest WM: machine fly/press for 20-30
    STRETCH
    Shoulders: smith military press for 15-20RP
    STRETCH
    Triceps: overhead tricep extensions for 15-25RP
    Triceps widowmaker: dip machine with deep stretch for 20-30
    STRETCH

    Day 6: Calves/Hams/Quads
    Calves: leg press calf raise for 15-20RP with a 5sec stretch
    STRETCH
    Adductor machine: 15-30RP
    Hams: seated leg curls for 15-24RP
    STRETCH
    Quads: Squats for 16-20 then another set for 10-15
    Quads Widowmaker: Leg press for 20-30 hard deep reps
    STRETCH

    Day 7: Biceps/Forearms/Back
    Biceps: EZ bar curls for 15-24RP
    Forearms: rope cable curls for 20-30
    STRETCH
    Back Width: Yates hammer strength pulldown for 15-20RP
    Back Width WM: Rack chins for 20-30
    Back Thickness: t-bar rows for 10-13 then another set for 7-9
    STRETCH

    Day 8: Chest/Shoulders/Triceps
    Chest: hammer strength press for 15-30RP
    Chest WM: machine fly/press for 20-30
    STRETCH
    Shoulders: machine military press for 12-20RP
    STRETCH
    Triceps: CGBP for 15-25RP
    Triceps WM: dip machine with deep stretch for 20-30
    STRETCH

    Day 9: Calves/Hams/Quads
    Calves: cybex rotary calf press for 15-20RP with 5 second stretch
    STRETCH
    Adductor machine: 15-30RP
    Hams: standing leg curls for 15-24RP
    STRETCH
    Quads: front squat machine for 16-20 then another set for 10-15
    Quads WM: leg press for 20-30 hard deep reps
    STRETCH

    WMs for the areas I feel need to really improve. I need more size everywhere of course but especially chest, triceps, quads & back width

    Leave a comment:


  • homonunculus
    replied
    Originally posted by BabyBeast05 View Post
    So you think WM's for every body part is too much and would actually impede maximum growth?
    It very well could be for some people. I would venture to say most people, really going balls to the wall, would overtrain if they tried that.

    -S

    Leave a comment:


  • BabyBeast05
    replied
    Originally posted by homonunculus View Post
    Hey Bud,

    (I'll answer for Dante, given I'm not sure he'll see this, he sends me his DC clients and I think I was Dave's training partner in the the vid. you're referring to. )

    Dave's vid's are really not the best template to use for DC Training. Frankly, I can't remember what we did for those vid's, to be honest. (You can create a good program using them of course, but that's just what was needed for Dave at the time...)

    Usually, a good starting place for a 3-way would be to do WM's for maybe 3 body parts. (You can't answer your question simply with # of exercises b/c it will differ depending on the muscle group.)

    This might be WM's for back width, chest and hamstrings (one on each training day). Generally, I'd try to find a way to target other weak muscle groups with choices of exercises beyond (and possibly in addition to) that if at all possible, like what's done with the 2 way (e.g., more pressing movements for triceps that all add extra stimulus to bring up the chest).

    Dante's got a post somewhere he were he talks about getting funky and creative with exercises. So if someone's not bringing the biceps up with BB and DB Curls after 10 years and getting strong as hell, then going with a something novel that isolates and/or puts a stretch on the biceps might work, e.g., a seated cable curl on an incline bench with a low cable pulling from behind like you could set up with a Free motion cable cross-over...

    -Scott
    So you think WM's for every body part is too much and would actually impede maximum growth?

    Leave a comment:


  • homonunculus
    replied
    Originally posted by BabyBeast05 View Post
    DC, for advanced guys like national level guys who use the 3 way split, how many exercises should they do per body part? Just 1 with maybe a widow maker? Last time I trained DC style I did pretty much exactly how David Henry trained in his first DVD, granted I am no where near his size yet but I have been training for 10 years and have gained 50lbs of muscle in that time frame, which I think is pretty good for being 5'5 and only 24 years old. I'd like to give DC training another shot this offseason to try an make an impact in the LHW class next year but I want to make sure I'm getting the most out of what I'm doing. I wish you still had time to take on clients!
    Hey Bud,

    (I'll answer for Dante, given I'm not sure he'll see this, he sends me his DC clients and I think I was Dave's training partner in the the vid. you're referring to. )

    Dave's vid's are really not the best template to use for DC Training. Frankly, I can't remember what we did for those vid's, to be honest. (You can create a good program using them of course, but that's just what was needed for Dave at the time...)

    Usually, a good starting place for a 3-way would be to do WM's for maybe 3 body parts. (You can't answer your question simply with # of exercises b/c it will differ depending on the muscle group.)

    This might be WM's for back width, chest and hamstrings (one on each training day). Generally, I'd try to find a way to target other weak muscle groups with choices of exercises beyond (and possibly in addition to) that if at all possible, like what's done with the 2 way (e.g., more pressing movements for triceps that all add extra stimulus to bring up the chest).

    Dante's got a post somewhere he were he talks about getting funky and creative with exercises. So if someone's not bringing the biceps up with BB and DB Curls after 10 years and getting strong as hell, then going with a something novel that isolates and/or puts a stretch on the biceps might work, e.g., a seated cable curl on an incline bench with a low cable pulling from behind like you could set up with a Free motion cable cross-over...

    -Scott

    Leave a comment:


  • BabyBeast05
    replied
    DC, for advanced guys like national level guys who use the 3 way split, how many exercises should they do per body part? Just 1 with maybe a widow maker? Last time I trained DC style I did pretty much exactly how David Henry trained in his first DVD, granted I am no where near his size yet but I have been training for 10 years and have gained 50lbs of muscle in that time frame, which I think is pretty good for being 5'5 and only 24 years old. I'd like to give DC training another shot this offseason to try an make an impact in the LHW class next year but I want to make sure I'm getting the most out of what I'm doing. I wish you still had time to take on clients!

    Leave a comment:

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