'Dante on not being an idiot and using some common sense with the stretches'

[greatkeen]

this link: http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=17843, one of the stickies work, but this particular link with in it 'Dante on not being an idiot and using some common sense with the stretches' (in the 3rd post, by 'jstout') is not working.

Can somebody direct me where i can find this post of stretches?

Thanks.

[LuNa23]

Search: "Ok Im going to bitch a little bit here about Extreme Stretching" on thread titles only.

Here is the OP in case you have problems:

Im reading the Ironage board and another board the last couple weeks and keep seeing guys saying they are injuring their shoulders and such and DC is great and all but stay away from the stretching because they are dangerous.

Im going to state this straight out, if you are injuring yourselves on the stretches, guess what? YOU ARE A FREAKING IDIOT. Another reason I cannot stand obsessive compulsive bodybuilders who have to take every factor to the umpteenth degree!

Ever do a flat bench dumbell fly? What happens on every rep at the bottom of your rep? Do you rip your shoulders out of their sockets? Do you tear your rotator cuffs? THEN WHY THE HELL ARE YOU GETTING INJURED DOING A STRETCH IN THE BOTTOM POSITION OF A FLAT BENCH DUMBELL FLY....if you can do 8-15 reps normally with a dumbell like its nothing when you actually do reps?!?!?! Maybe because your an idiot?

The extreme stretches arent about ripping limbs, tearing muscles, and getting injured here and if you are doing things that way....take a second and look in the mirror at someone who read something, and then went off on his own tangent of "oh my god i have to be the most hardcore guy ever at all times"....wakeup call.....ITS A STRETCH!!!!

When i do a dumbell fly for reps i dont do the straight arm dumbell fly, I do a bent arm dumbell fly and keep my chest high and my back is ON the bench but my ass is OFF the edge of it to keep my ribcage/chest high. Then I do reps. If i do the stretch its the same comfortable movement i do reps with -- I just pause in the bottom position of it and find the most comfortable safe stretch. IT REALLY IS JUST THAT SIMPLE and i have no idea how this gets lost in translation.

This is just like when i used to recommend olive oil to gain weight and that guy a couple years ago was taking in 8-9 tablespoons in every shake....or when that 150 pound kid from bodybuilding.com was trying to eat 600 grams of protein a day.....there are alot of people in this sport Im finding out that just cannot think things through clearly. Talk about taking things to a level your not supposed to be at! No wonder guys screw themselves up with drugs in this sport when I see people take the most basic of concepts and go 50X past that basic concept.

I have this sight in my head of guys holding 60lb dumbells with straight arms out to the side trying to rip their front delts off their body.....IS THAT HOW I DESCRIBED IT? No its not! You shouldnt approach the stretches like its a max effort on a deadlift....thats not the approach at all.

So listen to this next sentence and listen good ok. You stretch a bodypart by going into a SAFE, CONTROLLED STRETCH (read that again....SAFE CONTROLLED STRETCH) that you have probably done a thousand times previously with some kind of movement---and you hold it for 60-90 seconds and it should be very painful because of the stretch......but in no way in hell should it be a joint pain.

I cannot even believe i have to write this thread....I would think things are pretty self explanatory. I personally cannot do a cross bench dumbell pullover to stretch out my lats or ribcage because my left delt (joint) cannot handle that. Should I not listen to that pain and go grab a 125lb dumbell and go and do it anyway?!?!?! Who should I blame if i do it and hurt my left delt? Dante, because he would be the idiot who did it.

Do we have guys on this board doing "skin the cats" with 300lb bodyweights to stretch out their shoulders?

I really cannot fathom how such a simplistic concept of using a bottom position of an exercise youve done 5000 times before can be so misconstrued and overcomplicated.

If something doesn't feel right in an extreme stretch, then dont do it....figure out a stretch you can do. I feel stupid even leaving this post because I really have it in my head that most of you who are going to read this will think "yea no shit Dante tell me something I dont know...not too hard to figure out what you want done"......but there are a slew of people that really dont have a clue here obviously if i keep reading these posts on other boards.

Somewhere along the journey the actual STRETCH part got forgotten and people started doing crucifix's with 120lb dumbells....frustrating.

[greatkeen]

Thanks man..

[SkinnyMike42]

I can't say I wasn't thrown off at first with the chest stretch...


"Flat bench 90lb dumbbells chest high--lungs full of air--first 10 seconds
drop down into deepest stretch and then next 50 seconds really push the
stretch (this really, really hurts) but do it faithfully and come back and
post on the AE message board in 4 weeks and tell me if your chest isn't much
fuller and rounder"

Found here..

http://dc-training.blogspot.com/2005...tretching.html

With that being said, I was still not dumb enough to try that. Especially after watching project SHW with Harris and watching him wince while holding 35 lb DBs.

[homonunculus]

I can't say I wasn't thrown off at first with the chest stretch...


"Flat bench 90lb dumbbells chest high--lungs full of air--first 10 seconds
drop down into deepest stretch and then next 50 seconds really push the
stretch (this really, really hurts) but do it faithfully and come back and
post on the AE message board in 4 weeks and tell me if your chest isn't much
fuller and rounder"

Found here..

http://dc-training.blogspot.com/2005...tretching.html

With that being said, I was still not dumb enough to try that. Especially after watching project SHW with Harris and watching him wince while holding 35 lb DBs.

The paragraph above that provides the context (emphasis mine):

One must temper their newfound strength and appetite with the wisdom to apply
them properly, we’re certainly not advocating that one lift weights to the
point of injury or that an endomorph stuff themselves with everything in
sight. Both Dogg and I are major advocates of stretching prior to working
out and MORE IMPORTANTLY STRETCHING TO THE POINT OF THRESHOLDS AFTER working out. I (Meuller) even more so after having torn a triceps and having 200 cc’s of pus removed from a bicep in May of this year. At a bodyweight of over 310 lbs, I am the very definition of “muscle-bound” and find it very difficult to perform actions that most people take for granted (like tying my shoes, and I’m not joking). As such, I am routinely stretched every week by another trainer to try and maintain some modicum of flexibility, and stretch prior to and while working out to avoid further injuries (or exacerbate the ones I currently have). I happily take my hat off to Dogg and give credit where credit is due, the guy is an amazing trainer and showed a young and cocky
Jason Meuller what hardcore was really all about back in ’94. He believes like Jon Parillo did, that "extreme stretching" directly after a bodypart is trained is key for recuperation, recovery, and a primer for growth via fascial stretching and maybe even hyperplasia (more on that in a future article). He’s outlined a series of stretches that he finds extremely effective at both avoiding injuries and adding size during cycles. These
includes the weights he uses, which readers will obviously have to adjust (more than likely down) according to their own strength levels. Every extreme stretch is done right after that body part has been trained.

-S

[greatkeen]

I can't say I wasn't thrown off at first with the chest stretch....

for me its shoulders stretch... i dont know if i am really bending too much, as in squating position...nothing bad so far but was curious if doing too much...my shoulders are pretty healthy with no prior injury & i guess flexibility wise i m somewhat better then most bodybuilders.

also one question seems to bug me...are there any long term negative impact of extreme stretching on tendons, joining ligaments etc? perhaps someone doing it for decade or so can better answer?

[homonunculus]

also one question seems to bug me...are there any long term negative impact of extreme stretching on tendons, joining ligaments etc? perhaps someone doing it for decade or so can better answer?

How would you know unless you stretched just one side and not the other?...

I've been doing extreme stretches for about a decade now. Nothing that I can notice as far as stretching related joint injury or laxity.

I tend towards patellofemoral pain (which I suspect I get from my mom) and have for about 20yr. My right shoulder has tended to be a bit problematic every since I was in 8th grade. I'm still doing behind the neck barbell presses with >225lb.

I've never suspected that any of my stretching aggravated any joint, ligament or tendon. Of course, if the stretching did tend to cause any pain, then of course (lo and behold) I wouldn't do it... (I can only recall that happening when I was nursing another injury that occurred while lifting or was lifting related as best I could tell.)

-Scott

[greatkeen]

Thanks Scott, your physique is testemont of alot of DC prinicpals...thanks for your feedback...

however, i am still a little concerned abt my shoulder stretch...compared to pics of 'inhuman' showing the various stretched positions, i can for sure stretch more,,,infact if i just do wat hes showing in the pic, i probably wont feel any stretch in my shoulders at all....offcourse..i attribute that to inhuman massive size plus me being a rather more flexible then others.

so to feel any real stretch in that area, i walk away from the bar while my hands are still at smith bar positioned at my shoulder hight..then i squat down so much that my shoulder actually are pretty lower then the bar...it feels so good then...can hold it good for 40secs...any how as i said nothing bad so far...but i dont really want to injur my self doing stretching..lolz..thats why wanted to be sure if not going over board.

[homonunculus]

Thanks Scott, your physique is testemont of alot of DC prinicpals...thanks for your feedback...

however, i am still a little concerned abt my shoulder stretch...compared to pics of 'inhuman' showing the various stretched positions, i can for sure stretch more,,,infact if i just do wat hes showing in the pic, i probably wont feel any stretch in my shoulders at all....offcourse..i attribute that to inhuman massive size plus me being a rather more flexible then others.

so to feel any real stretch in that area, i walk away from the bar while my hands are still at smith bar positioned at my shoulder hight..then i squat down so much that my shoulder actually are pretty lower then the bar...it feels so good then...can hold it good for 40secs...any how as i said nothing bad so far...but i dont really want to injur my self doing stretching..lolz..thats why wanted to be sure if not going over board.

How big are you?... (Any pics?...)

If you're doing DC training, you should be advanced enough to sense whether or not you've gone too far. Also, most guys will indeed be so muscular that they don't have extreme flexibility but this is certainly not a hard and fast rule. (Dave Henry can do the splits, which I can't come close to, but I can go deeper into the stretch in the link below because I'm less muscular than him.)

Also, if you're stretching just after training a muscle group, your flexibility may be diminished a tad bit and you'll sure as hell feel the stretch if you're doing it right.

So, all this make me wonder about how advanced you are.

Here's the delt stretch that will work for most anyone:

http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthr...tch#post588133

-S

[greatkeen]

i was 195lbs yesterday bf approx 10% at 5.10, nothing really worth putting up a pic of..

and thanks for pointing me to this other shoulder stretch but i think the original stretch is doing really good for me. i have no problems with it, just was a bit skeptic if i was going in a bit over board.

What i do is pretty much exactly what Dante has explained in original description... walk away till on your toes then squat down... the position does look very unnatural for shoulder & the griddle..

[aragorn1500]

How do you hurt yourself doing a stretch? Like homonunculus said you should be far enough into your training to know when to stop.