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Sometimes i just have to shake my head at some of the people in bodybuilding

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  • Sometimes i just have to shake my head at some of the people in bodybuilding

    Its amazing when you read different threads on bodybuilding boards and you just get a whole bunch of people who dont live in reality.

    That latest thread about Dorian Yates stack on Muscular Development for example......

    Mid 90's I wrote a very hardcore magazine in which I used to interview various bodybuilders (pro and amateur) usually anonymously and off the record. It was very popular and some of you might remember it. Here in Southern California there was a very good amateur bodybuilder who had gone over to England for many months and trained at Yates gym and picked his brain extensively. He kept notes of all this (diet and enhancement) and showed me all this back in the 90's. The diet part was very detailed and lo and behold Dorian later got very detailed with his diet articles in magazines and it was EXACTLY THE SAME INFORMATION SHOWN TO ME......EXACTLY!!!! ......see everyone believed that part when i reported it. But then when I posted the enhanced part of the equation that was shown to me everyone yelled bullshit. The stack used was pretty much on the same lines as what Ron Harris and Mike Arnold reported but slightly higher volumes (testosterone/week etc) because again this was mid 90's and not the early 90's (time period when Dorian reported in MD).

    Bodybuilding has become "If I cannot do it, then they are lieing"....thats what this sport has become. Ive trained so many people now Ive lost count. Do you really think I dont know what the guys Ive trained have done or are doing? Do you really think I dont see the differences in people SOME OF WHOM ARE DOING THE EXACT SAME THINGS AS EACH OTHER ENHANCEMENT WISE? When I see a national level superheavyweight that can be 300 pounds at 10% on 300mg of test a week and 1-3 ius of gh in the offseason and then i see national level lightheavyweights (one inch shorter than the superheavyweight) that blasts 1500mg of test in the offseason with 800mg of eq and 50mg of dball and 8 ius of gh and cannot get over start realizing that there are some distinct differences in how people react to this stuff.....and people who DONT explode off of it get REALLY PISSED OFF/PARANOID/ and come up with every propaganda/scenario toward the people that do.

    Craig Titus was one of the most abusive bodybuilders ever known in this sport. This guy loaded up like nobody elses business. He told me straight on out himself what he was taking at one time and my jaw dropped (13 different drugs, 5 grams of test, gh, slin, nubain, the freaking kitchen sink).....what was the heaviest that guy competed at? 238? Thats it? You have guys in these bodybuilding forums blasting to the high know who you breath heavy going to get the mail, blood pressure thru the roof, jacking all kinds of amounts of this and that yet the closest you get to a pro card is sitting in the audience every year at the USA's and the Nats because you dont have a chance in hell of winning any kind of show. It is what it is. So everyone believes it when I talk about Craig Titus but nobody believes it when I also show the other side of the spectrum....because it fits better in the "well I cannot be like that so they must lie" equation.

    I always get a good chuckle out of these "Every pro does this....." discussions. Like every pro bodybuilder didnt have best friends growing up, or a group of guys who did the juice right along with him the whole step of the way. Why arent these pro bodybuilder's friends pros? They have the same access and same knowledge....why arent all their training partners and best buddies (who in alot of cases are the actual guys getting them stuff) PROS? Every bodybuilder who juices on these boards....are all your friends that juice the same size you are? Why not? If he who does the most drugs is always the best then why arent you guys all carbon copies of each other if you are running the same stacks?

    IM in my 40's now and Ive gotten way way way past the jealous petty bullshit that the 20 something guys have in bodybuilding of everyone else around them. Face the freaking facts....there are some guys in this sport that can take exactly what you take and DESTROY YOU with muscular it fair? No so go cry yourself to sleep tonight about it then.....

    Do you really think the moderators of Intensemuscle dont know what the FRACK is going on with various pros? Do you really think Homonuncleus doesnt know exactly what certain pro's do? Do you really think Skip doesnt know exactly what certain pro's do? Do you really think Massive G doesnt know what certain pro's do? Do you really think Sweatymachine doesnt know what certain pro's do? (Sweaty doesnt say much but has known one of the top prep guys for many years personally whose guys have won shows like Mr Olympia and the NY Pro)

    So you got people who actually DO KNOW vs guys on boards out in East Aardvark Wyoming who have access to bodybuilding muscle boards who go by rumors by other guys from West slappyville Montana on that same message board......whose beliefs and agenda's are molded by their insecure ego's. EGO'S THAT CANNOT COMPREHEND HOW THAT GUYS GENETICS OVER THERE DESTROY THEIRS in every feasible way. (reaction to training, reaction to drugs, reaction to all things hypertrophy)

    Some guys abuse the hell out of themselves in the pro's no doubt, just like some guys at your gym do. Some guys are very reasonable to moderate in the pro's and use less than the thousands of abusive bodybuilders on these boards. Alot of young guys on these boards just cannot use deductive reasoning and figure it out. Hell right now on pro muscle there is a guy who i think goes in at 214 in shows at a pretty tall height who is running this and that and peptides and 8-10 IU's of gh a day and on and on. Do you really think Lee Haney who competed at 252 pounds 20 years ago in 1991 was abusing himself more than the guy on Pro muscle? Or that he was anywhere near what Titus did to himself? Cmon!

    We supermods sometimes have discussions in the supermod forum about all this and dont you think we would all be fighting and arguing if we had different opinions on it? We dont because we know that the most abusive people we have seen and heard of are the guys on these message boards posting.

    Sadly the modern bodybuilder forgets that the internet wasnt really around pre 1997 in any huge way. What information did people have? Books!!!! The anabolic reference guide, and Duchaines book. Thats how people got their information. Did you see anything in there about 5 grams of testosterone a week? No you didnt. There werent sites you could go to by just clicking a banner to order juice.....and message board bodybuilders forget that. Alot of times things were sparce...and people couldnt get things. Hell I remember when a universally known bodybuilder who is still competing today took a couple years off after getting his pro card because he was having trouble getting juice according to people close to him. People seem to forget that the access just wasnt there for alot of bodybuilders in the early to mid 90's like it is today.

    Ive really gotten to the point that i want to call some of these blowhards on their bluff. Oh its all about drugs and only drugs and anyone can get a pro card if you use enough drugs? THEN DO IT! prove it! Where is your pro card then? In the shoebox next to your "Since i cant do it they must be lieing" diary?

    Im going to show you an example of pro genetics and how you know you HAVE PRO GENETICS next.
    Last edited by Doggcrapp; 08-26-2011, 07:57 PM.

  • #2
    There is a guy in my San Diego area. His name is Chris Martin. I dont really think he likes bodybuilding personally. He just did it because it was expected of him.

    a) He jumped in the teenage nationals when he was young and placed top 3 I believe
    b) He takes many years off just doing his thing, jumps in various bench press contests and destroys everyone.
    c) At 26 he crushes a local show and gets nationally qualified and goes to the NATIONALS .... first time out....NATIONALS!
    He places 4th first time out at Nationals Superheavies....beaten by pro's Art Atwood, Matt Duvall and longtime national competitor in the superheavies Stokely Palmer.
    He shows up at 26 years old at 5'9" 241 pounds and beats people like Toney Freeman.
    Attached Files


    • #3
      26 years old first time out at nats
      Attached Files


      • #4
        He gets disinterested again.....two years goes by and he jumps into another show....2003 Excalibur....he overdiets to get shredded but ends up just destroying everyone onstage anyway.....and I mean annihilating everyone. He beats at least 3 more guys who are now pro in this show also.
        Attached Files


        • #5
          Attached Files


          • #6
            So the year is I believe 2006, I am working out in my gym in Escondido CA and i see this guy with hairy arms and hairy legs that is fairly lean but is a 5'9" freaking monster. Its Chris Martin. He got disinterested in bodybuilding again for awhile and other priorities like career business and family took over. It was his first workout back after 8 months off of lifting. He was 282 pounds. I saw him get on the scale. Gigantic calves, and still big. Hard and over 300 as he used to be in the offseason? Nope but 282 pounds and big. How? BECAUSE HIS GENETICS SEPARATE HIM from the rabble in this sport. This is where pro genetics come from....people like that. Its a totally different look from your average gym goer, your average juicer, and pretty much anyone who is hardcore in the gym. Do you really think he was jacking boatloads of sauce not lifting for 8 months? Would you?
            I dont believe he has competed since, doesnt interest him.

            This is the difference between pro bodybuilder genetics and everyone elses genetics and its why peoples egos get so bent when they cannot accomplish what comes so easily to a rare elite group.
            Last edited by Doggcrapp; 08-26-2011, 08:00 PM.


            • #7
              I blame the posing trunks for the disinterest.
              International Elite Raw Powerlifter
              Blood - Sweat - Chalk


              • #8
                Great Post Dante! So true. There comes a point in bodybuilding where you either have it or you dont.


                • #9
                  Oh, you opened a rather large can of worms with this one. There are sirens going off on other boards and in small town Ohio right now. This should get fun.

                  I couldn't be happier to see this post from you. Still, logical people will get it and it will make sense but .... most people will think you are full of shit. It is much easier to believe that the pros use a ton of shit and THAT is whey they are pros.

                  Now, I will concede that there is at least one top 5 pro right now that makes Titus' use look like HRT. Still, he is the exception, not the rule.


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                  • #10
                    I will add to the genetics debate real quick:

                    I have a client that went from 225 last year in his first show to over 300 and then will likely compete at about 255 in the near future. That is 30 pounds of additional stage weight and just as lean (likely leaner than last year) as last year. He POSSIBLY has pro genetics. Did you catch that "possibly" part? He gained 30 pounds of muscle, took his off season body weight to over 300 pounds with abs and he MIGHT turn pro in the future??

                    Think about this for a minute: If you gained 5 to 10 pounds or 15 pounds last off season, keep it in perspective. Those are great gains but .... keep yourself in check. Elite genetics is difficult concept to comprehend. My guy isn't boatloading gear, either, though if you look at him most would say he is.


                    Facebook: Skip Hill
                    Instagram: @intensemuscle
                    YouTube: TEAMSKIP
                    TikTok: @intensemuscle

                    For Training Inquiries: [email protected]

                    Use discount code "SKIP" and get your TEAM SKIP protein here:


                    • #11
                      Another Addition:

                      I got a gift of perspective in high school. I might have posted this here and I know I've told a few people this in person.

                      Going into my Sr. year we were doing pre-season strength testing for football for all the grades. I was helping out with the testing. We started with the kids on their way into 8th grade, some of whom had never played football before. One of these kids was new to town I think and everyone said he should go out for the team. He was a BIG kid and muscular as hell. He might of been held back a year or two. (Hell, make it 4 years, the fact of what he did is still phenomenal.)

                      They start testing bench press 1RM in waves with 95lb... He gets under the bar and gets it up wobbily with a little instruction as he does it. He's not sure what to do b/c it's the first time he'd ever bench pressed.

                      115lb - goes up wobbly again.
                      135lb - Looks just the same to him. Wobbly, but easy.

                      We work up to 185lb and now the 9th and 10th grade kids are in there...

                      185lb and he gets it. Wobbly, but he gets it just like the other attempts.

                      205lb - just the same an now the Jr's and Sr.'s are starting to arrive.

                      205lb - done
                      225lb done
                      most of the 8th graders have done the other strength tests and gone home.

                      255lb Tough, but he gets it and we're getting extra spotters b/c his form is erratic, but you can see how strong he is...

                      275lb - The Sr.s are like - who the hell is this guy?... (He's shy and wanted to stop actually...)

                      275lb takes him two attempts, sorta. He brings it down, partly back up and the all the way - with strength. (We're like... shit... He was toying with it, actually.)

                      315lb... Strongest guy on the team is getting this (we had a shitty football team)

                      Yes, he gets 315lb this time, but it's tough... I remember he had this look on his face like it was the first time than anything was every physically hard for him. Like he couldn't understand it even...

                      They say what the hell and bump it to 365. (Hes' got like a dozen spotters here now... LOL)

                      He does a funky bounce, presses up and damn near locks it out and then everyone jumps in racks it for him...


                      For all practical purposes, I just saw and 8th grader bench press 365lb THE FIRST TIME HE EVER BENCH PRESSED. EVER.

                      I never heard about the kid at all. As far as I know he never even played sports at my H.S....

                      Chalk one up for genetics.

                      The Book Has Arrived!
                      The Book Has Arrived!

                      Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


                      2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
                      2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
                      2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's


                      • #12
                        He is a FREAK for sure Skip! I just laughed when I saw him right before he started dieting for his show. My friends ask the same shit, what is he on? and done believe me when I say less then you, to the guy who is trying to break 200lbs at 5ft-9, its about genetics not the gear...
                        I have people asking me when I am going to nationals! I laugh and say I would be lucky to win a state level show let alone Jr national level. I accept my mediocre genetics at best and do what I can with them... DEEP SIGH
                        2014 NPC Mr MN State TBD
                        2012 NPC MN state 40+ 1st and 3rd Hvy *Injury :frusty:
                        2012 NPC Gopher State 40+ 1st and 1st SuperHvy
                        2011 NPC Gopher State 40+ 1st and 2nd Open Hvy.
                        2011 NPC Upper Midwest 40+ 1st and Super Hvy 1st
                        2009 Gopher State 4th Hvy and 4th Masters 40+
                        *11 Natural contest 1992-2000 placed top 4 of all
                        88 Natural Mr MN 2nd Teen
                        88 Gopher State 4th Teen Hvy Div 176lbs


                        • #13
                          I have a friend who is big, strong fast etc a pure athlete weighs about 230lbs and is lean just for fun, after a couple of months he says something like "Good news my sister made the olympics", GENETICS.
                          "Be gentle in what you do, firm in how you do it."
                          Buck Brannaman.

                          "It is the certainty of punishment that deters crime, not the severity of it."
                          'Hanging' Judge PARKER

                          "Nothing is so powerful as an insight into human nature... what compulsions drive a man, what instincts dominate his action... if you know these things about a man you can touch him at the core of his being."
                          ~William Bernbach


                          • #14
                            This is a great thread. I saw Yates' gear use on another forum and it is sickening how others don't believe it. Way to put it into perspective.


                            • #15
                              I think that most people have no clue that genetics also play a HUGE role in how one's body responds to drugs. I have played around with dosages in the past, and truth be told, I felt like crap the higher I went. I think we all know "that guy", who can eat like crap, train like a noobie, and just basically sniff a bottle of test and get big as hell. I have a buddy who bounces part time and is pretty damn big, AND lean. He trains about an average of 5 days a month, and goes on and off gear very sporadically, and also uses low dosages when he's on. I saw him last week at the gym after he was "off" AND not training for 4 months and he benched 405 for 6 smooth reps. If this guy ever got serious, he could do some damage if he competed, whether it be bb'ing or powerlifting. I've asked him if he was interested in that and he said nah, he just does it for fun. He also parties pretty hard and still stays big and lean...this whole thing has led me to believe one thing: I am cursed with the worst genetics known to

                              "SIMPLICITY, CONSISTENCY, INTENSITY"