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  • how far can one go?

    hey guys.just some background info on me: been a long time dc trainer and competitor as well as PED user. won my national title twice and am now on a break for fertility reasons. i thought an interesting topic that could generate some good discussion would be , in your opinion (dante and other vets please chime in) how far can one go development wise without touching gear/gh/slin ect but has the best supplement schedule (test boosters, creatine ect), the best eating schedule for his goal, the best training schedule (DC obviously) and the best recovery schedule. how muscular do you guys think someone can get (not in contest condition but not a fat fuck either, general off season 10-15% bf) My reasoning is: ever see those tv shows about morbidly obese people weighing in at 500lb plus?? if the human body can withstand that and grow to those proportions, what would be possible muscle development wise. to the best of my knowledge, sumo wretslers dont use PED (i could be wrong) are extremely heavy yet have extraordinary muscle mass. i find this an interesting topic and hope you guys do also and share your thoughts.

  • #2
    Easy. Your max genetic potential. Thats about all there is to it.

    The fat fucks get there beacuse GENETICS allows them to. Just like the 30 year old skinny guy. He eats and eats and eats all day long. Shiity food, healthy food; water, or booze it doesn't matter. He will won't grow. He won't become fit from this, but his genetics will not allow him to gain an ounce of fat either.

    Same principles apply here.


    J
    "No man ever won a war by dieing for his county. He did it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his."

    George Patton


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    • #3
      I think it's more matter of how much muscle mass one can keep at a low bodyfat percentage. I've yet to see a 250lb natural guy at 8% BF (let's say he's around 6'). Muscle mass can go a long way, but I think it gets harder and harder to get lean the heavier you get.
      Disclaimer: I am not a DC trainee/expert/guru/coach, anything I say is purely my opinion based on experience and research I've read

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Carlito Gambino View Post
        I think it's more matter of how much muscle mass one can keep at a low bodyfat percentage. I've yet to see a 250lb natural guy at 8% BF (let's say he's around 6'). Muscle mass can go a long way, but I think it gets harder and harder to get lean the heavier you get.
        Im not sure if i agree with this completely... but i think without drugs that could probably be a close assessment of maxing out natural genetics. Im 6'2 225 and @ 13% bf and all natural. I have been up to 250 but i was closer to 20% bf when i got that high (couldnt stay away from the beer). I also for the time being do NO cardio. Im 13% purely from diet and weights. I think if i was to bump up my calorie intake to say 4-5k and start actually doing cardio i could push 250 while maintaining a lower than 15% bf. Now to get it down to 8 probably would be a hard without some added sups. It basically boils down to height and genetics. It would be harder for someone thats 5'7" to pack on 250 naturally than someone 6'2"

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        • #5
          You brought up something intesting. You see morbidly obese people, sometimes 700+, and they are walking around! Getting up out of a chair would be like doing a HUGE squat and I have seen them do it! Even on Biggest Loser, they have some 500+ and those folks are exercising!
          Their muscles would have to keep up with that weight even though they are couch potatoes. So my hypotheis is that you can just eat your way up to huge. You'll be a fat ass but it can be done.
          And I totally disagree with the comment that they have to be genetically different to get that big. I think the average person (not some naturally skinny person) under the right circumstances could get to those weights. There but by the grace of God go any one of us!
          If it's not fun, don't do it

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          • #6
            Have you not read anything Dante has wrote about getting as big as humanly possible then cutting down?!?! Its not like your coming up with new theories on anything you post new threads on... Just sayin
            2014 NPC Mr MN State TBD
            2012 NPC MN state 40+ 1st and 3rd Hvy *Injury :frusty:
            2012 NPC Gopher State 40+ 1st and 1st SuperHvy
            2011 NPC Gopher State 40+ 1st and 2nd Open Hvy.
            2011 NPC Upper Midwest 40+ 1st and Super Hvy 1st
            2009 Gopher State 4th Hvy and 4th Masters 40+
            *11 Natural contest 1992-2000 placed top 4 of all
            88 Natural Mr MN 2nd Teen
            88 Gopher State 4th Teen Hvy Div 176lbs

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            • #7
              I don't know if storing fat is comparable to building muscle. I would argue that in our evolutionary history, the dude that could "get the fattest" had the best chance of surviving longer. At a certain strength, there is really no advantage anymore. some basic strength adaptation was necessary to carry animals, trees...etc. But becoming massively strong vs. just quite strong just doesn't seem like it would have any evolutionary advantage for most people.

              So I would argue that storing fat is always going to be easier for the body than building and maintaining muscle.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by CJ Hartley View Post
                Have you not read anything Dante has wrote about getting as big as humanly possible then cutting down?!?! Its not like your coming up with new theories on anything you post new threads on... Just sayin
                Nah, I read it. I was just adding to it!
                If it's not fun, don't do it

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                • #9
                  Quantity over quality I guess...
                  2014 NPC Mr MN State TBD
                  2012 NPC MN state 40+ 1st and 3rd Hvy *Injury :frusty:
                  2012 NPC Gopher State 40+ 1st and 1st SuperHvy
                  2011 NPC Gopher State 40+ 1st and 2nd Open Hvy.
                  2011 NPC Upper Midwest 40+ 1st and Super Hvy 1st
                  2009 Gopher State 4th Hvy and 4th Masters 40+
                  *11 Natural contest 1992-2000 placed top 4 of all
                  88 Natural Mr MN 2nd Teen
                  88 Gopher State 4th Teen Hvy Div 176lbs

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                  • #10
                    very good replies. using obese people as a comparison was simply saying the body can cope with amazing stress. i train at a gym where there are a few elite powerlifters. they are very large and are clean or close to it. these few individuals that i know personally are either natural or have used very low dose cycles. each weigh in the neighborhood of 300 lbs. not lean at that weight but not morbidly obese either. my guess is if they trimmed down they could easily be 260+ and huge. i am considering using myself as a human experiment to see just what level of muscular development i can reach with extreme eating and constant progression. i am passed my genetic limit and have used ped in the past. however im convinced that if one were to extreme eat (on level with elite powerlifters ect and use progressive training, somethings gotta happen lol. i know this is nothing new but i have yet to read an article about these methods being taken to their absolute limits. by that i mean, i have not heard of a bodybuilder eating on par with a sumo and training like a bodybuilder.

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                    • #11
                      Fat people have huge calves from walking around with all that weight. When I bulk I shoot to gain 2 lbs a week. I was up to 7300 cals a day natural. The only dirty food I ate was those packs of peanut butter crackers, at 200 cals a pack its easy to add one of those to each meal and get another 1200 calories. Eat up and lift and somethings gotta happen. But it does come down to genetics in the long run.
                      :kewlpics:You are correct, Dante did in fact take my avatar pic. lol

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                      • #12
                        I have seen fat people with small calves so if your betting on you calves getting huge by getting fat dont bet on it...
                        2014 NPC Mr MN State TBD
                        2012 NPC MN state 40+ 1st and 3rd Hvy *Injury :frusty:
                        2012 NPC Gopher State 40+ 1st and 1st SuperHvy
                        2011 NPC Gopher State 40+ 1st and 2nd Open Hvy.
                        2011 NPC Upper Midwest 40+ 1st and Super Hvy 1st
                        2009 Gopher State 4th Hvy and 4th Masters 40+
                        *11 Natural contest 1992-2000 placed top 4 of all
                        88 Natural Mr MN 2nd Teen
                        88 Gopher State 4th Teen Hvy Div 176lbs

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          How far do you WANT to push it? I think people can get to, or even break through, their genetic potential with some supplements (not even AAS... creatine, Trib, etc..), and by MASSIVE eating and lifting. I am an ecto lifetime natty and I have been at 218-220lbs at 5'7" at around 18-19%bf, by doing just that, so I can see someone taller than me reaching 250 naturally. I also felt like crap, had slightly elevated blood pressure and cholesterol, and couldn't run 3 blocks without passing out. Mass is still mass, and carrying around huge amounts of excess weight just to see how far you can push it sounds a little reckless and dangerous to your joints, heart, etc. in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I want to be as massive as I can, but I think you need to take into consideration other health consequences as well, and set some sort of limit. Do you want to be remembered as the biggest guy to ever fit into a coffin, or a great person, father, brother... and a pretty damn good bodybuilder?
                          "It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument." -William G. McAdoo

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by arnoldfan View Post
                            very good replies. using obese people as a comparison was simply saying the body can cope with amazing stress. i train at a gym where there are a few elite powerlifters. they are very large and are clean or close to it. these few individuals that i know personally are either natural or have used very low dose cycles. each weigh in the neighborhood of 300 lbs. not lean at that weight but not morbidly obese either. my guess is if they trimmed down they could easily be 260+ and huge. i am considering using myself as a human experiment to see just what level of muscular development i can reach with extreme eating and constant progression. i am passed my genetic limit and have used ped in the past. however im convinced that if one were to extreme eat (on level with elite powerlifters ect and use progressive training, somethings gotta happen lol. i know this is nothing new but i have yet to read an article about these methods being taken to their absolute limits. by that i mean, i have not heard of a bodybuilder eating on par with a sumo and training like a bodybuilder.


                            http://www.bodybuilding.net/nutritio...-mass-980.html


                            http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/di...-a-442527.html

                            http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/toddblue6.htm


                            -S
                            The Book Has Arrived!
                            The Book Has Arrived!

                            Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


                            www.TrueNutrition.com

                            2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
                            2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
                            2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

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                            • #15
                              Great articles, Homon. Just wanted to add this one:
                              http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=41620
                              If it's not fun, don't do it

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