Is this right? Calves

[TheLil'Missus]

We did calves today and again I'm asking The Munster if this is right and again he's sending me here.

On standing calves - at the bottom of the stretch I have to "re-engage" the muscles before I'm able to lift back up to the top of the movement. Adjust my toes to account for slippage and drop slowly back down to a full stretch. I find it near impossible to go from this full stretch to explode back up to the top and the re-engaging is a must. Is this right? This is how I've been doing it because that's what it takes to get it done, but I'd like to know if I need to drop the weight a bit and try for a more explosive movement.

Thanks.

[Joint Fracture]

Hhhmmm, calves have always been problematic for the reasons that you just mentioned. IMO, it seems that a lot of it is traction related. For example, some gyms are good about maintaining the "traction tape"...similar to the industrial material they use in public buildings to keep people from slipping. It does wear relatively fast, but when it's fresh, you tend to get a fantastic grip on the base and no "re-engaging" is needed. Unfortunately, most gyms don't keep up the tape or worse...don't even use it. My current gym just has the aluminum diamond plate and I have to "re-engage" also. I don't think it is all that detrimental, but if it bothers you...yes consider slightly lighter weight to recover the continuous fluid movement with out having to re-adjust. Often times you can get a better "bite" if you do calves in the leg press, perhaps because your bottom and back are held more sationary and it seems to keep the foot planted better (although not completely eliminating the slippage). Just my .02
-JF.

[In-Human]

TLM, If need be drop the weight a little and get at least 10 reps without re-adjusting, I even carry some grip tape with me and replace what is bad on some machines...

[asim]

I have that problem with standing calf raises and hack calf raises. We have that shitty aluminium diamond plate thing too. I asked if i could get something into get better grip on it. but the gym refuse. i asked if i could try it bare foot. they refuse.

So stuck doin them regular way. And to add to it ive got trainers which are like 1-2 sizes too big. really gotta start wearing different trainers. but for some reasons im gettin good at it. i dont have to readjust myself till about 6 reps or so.

might wear some boots or something.

[TheLil'Missus]

I think I've expained this wrong.

I'm not having a problem with slipping at the bottom. The problem comes in after I've been holding the stretched position for 10 seconds. Attempting to go from this completely stretched position (heels hanging) to contracting the calves and raise me back up is physically difficult without a minor adjustment, what I think of as re-engaging the muscle to now lift me. Or are you able to go from a completely stretched out calf (stretching in the process) right into the contraction portion of the movement?

Yes, there is readjustment (very quickly) at the top of the movement, just before slowly lowering again and now that I think of it they only have the diamond plate as well, but my main question is concerning the bottom of the movement.

Is the calf muscle supposed to be still engaged at the bottom, just in its most elongated position? Or is it supposed to be maximally stretched and the muscle not engaged? What I'm doing is the second.

[TheLil'Missus]

might wear some boots or something.

KR's gonna get us all converted. :p

[asim]

I dont know about everyone else. but i can go from the stretched position straight into the positive. Ive watched dorian yates blood and guts and he seems to be able to do it. With a 900lb stack or more!

[TheLil'Missus]

I dont know about everyone else. but i can go from the stretched position straight into the positive. Ive watched dorian yates blood and guts and he seems to be able to do it. With a 900lb stack or more!

And you're relaxed/stretched or contracted/stretched?

[Joint Fracture]

I think I've expained this wrong.

I'm not having a problem with slipping at the bottom. The problem comes in after I've been holding the stretched position for 10 seconds. Attempting to go from this completely stretched position (heels hanging) to contracting the calves and raise me back up is physically difficult without a minor adjustment, what I think of as re-engaging the muscle to now lift me. Or are you able to go from a completely stretched out calf (stretching in the process) right into the contraction portion of the movement?

Yes, there is readjustment (very quickly) at the top of the movement, just before slowly lowering again and now that I think of it they only have the diamond plate as well, but my main question is concerning the bottom of the movement.

Is the calf muscle supposed to be still engaged at the bottom, just in its most elongated position? Or is it supposed to be maximally stretched and the muscle not engaged? What I'm doing is the second.

Seems that it might be best to have it fully stretched without being engaged for maximal negative pull on the muscle. However, for me, that tends to put too much tension on the plantar fascia and achilles tendon to the point it feels over extended....kind of a pulling sensation. That seems to make me slightly flex the muscle to protect for the "over-stretching". If you can go to the bottom of the movement without the sensation of over stretching, I'd say you're on the right track. Now that I think about it, I think I fully stretch on the warm up sets, and hold slight flexion on the last brutal max set...for the protective reasons mentioned above.
-JF.

[asim]

call it a contracted/stretched thing. When i lower it i have full control over the weight and when i reach the bottom of the negative i still have control of it. I'll let it stretch as much as possible within that contracted stretch, which is basically the bottom of the movement. If i relaxed it, then i'd slip.

[In-Human]

TLM,, Your Gastroc and your Soleus muscles pull your down Plantar Flexion, and your Tibialis pulls your foot up Dorsiflexion, so at the bottom of the movement your Gastroc and Soleus are not contracted.

Does that help?, I am not sure what you are getting at, maybe my carbs are low and I am dumb...

[TheLil'Missus]

Seems that it might be best to have it fully stretched without being engaged for maximal negative pull on the muscle. However, for me, that tends to put too much tension on the plantar fascia and achilles tendon to the point it feels over extended....kind of a pulling sensation. That seems to make me slightly flex the muscle to protect for the "over-stretching". If you can go to the bottom of the movement without the sensation of over stretching, I'd say you're on the right track. Now that I think about it, I think I fully stretch on the warm up sets, and hold slight flexion on the last brutal max set...for the protective reasons mentioned above.
-JF.

Yeah! Ok...I am getting the pulling sensation (not pain) in the achilles tendon, which had me worried/concerned. No pain in the arch. But I've been going all relaxed at the bottom (as much as can be) and wondered if I should be maintaining a minor amount of contraction or if that defeats the purpose of the stretched position.

[Joint Fracture]

TLM,, Your Gastroc and your Soleus muscles pull your down Plantar Flexion, and your Tibialis pulls your foot up Dorsiflexion, so at the bottom of the movement your Gastroc and Soleus are not contracted.

Does that help?, I am not sure what you are getting at, maybe my carbs are low and I am dumb...

Od's Blood! IH low on carbs?!? Either that means you're currently slicing OR you missed a meal (unlikely). Phhittt! s! ss!
-JF.

[TheLil'Missus]

TLM,, Your Gastroc and your Soleus muscles pull your down Plantar Flexion, and your Tibialis pulls your foot up Dorsiflexion, so at the bottom of the movement your Gastroc and Soleus are not contracted.

Does that help?, I am not sure what you are getting at, maybe my carbs are low and I am dumb...

Your carbs may be low, but you're NOT dumb. :smooch: Maybe it needs a visual.

[The Munster]

TLM,, Your Gastroc and your Soleus muscles pull your down Plantar Flexion, and your Tibialis pulls your foot up Dorsiflexion, so at the bottom of the movement your Gastroc and Soleus are not contracted.

Does that help?, I am not sure what you are getting at, maybe my carbs are low and I am dumb...

OK. Here is what she means. We understand the movement. The problem she is having is this:

After the 15 second stretch, she CAN'T, from that fully stretched position, explode up in the concentric portion of the next rep without first "wiggling" or "adjusting" herself out of the fully stretched position. She can't go from fully stretched (non contracted) into flexing the calves immediately. She has to bend her knees, get somewhat readjusted (re-engaged) before going up.

Does this mean she has a weakness in her calves? She can handle the weight in all aspects of the movement except that very moment. Should she go down in weight?