Thank you Trueprotein - I COULDN'T HAVE DONE IT WITHOUT YOU!!!

[homonunculus]

Just thought I'd put in a report.

Today, I managed to put down at least 750 grams (conservative estimate) of protein (and had all the gas to prove it).

Breakfast was a ~125g protein shake, oatmeal w/ 75 g of protein powder and a 30 gram protein breakfast bar.

"Snacks" included another 160 g of protein pancakes, and another 125 g protein shake.

For lunch, I had 2 large chicken breasts, about 30 g worth of shrimp protein and another shake.

Dinner was sushi: About 3 rolls and another 20 pieces or so

Nighttime snack was another 40g of protein pancakes and a ~125 g protein shake.

Thanks, TPC and Dante. I have a whole corner of the kitchen devoted to my various flavors of when conc. and ca casein.

-Randy

[In-Human]

R-, I know shakes are great, but what about some real food...

[MikeyG]

I was gonna ask the same thing... I'd rather eat than slam down a shake and piss it all out within an hour. C'mon, doesnt like to take a trip to the bathroom and take a little dump and read muscular development while enjoying the sweet aroma in the air gotta get solids down the hatch bro.

[In-Human]

I was lucky if I got one shake down a day, I just guess I was a pig with the food but had to get at least 600 grams from real food ED...

[eric89]

damn that's alot of protien.

[homonunculus]

Yes, I know - I'd rather do real food, too... 'Twas a busy day w/ working at home, my family pack of chicken was still frozen and I didn't quite make the Costco run that I needed to. (Opted for a flatulence-enhanced nap instead... LOL I've been shying away from so many eggs for the reason, but my strategy didn't quite work yesterday. )

On the other hand, I did eat 40 pieces of sushi, 2 chicken breasts, about 20-30 shrimp and 10 eggs (mixed w/ protein pancakes), so I think was up over 250-300 grams from food (at least).

Frankly, it just kind of got away from me. It was mid-afternoon and I started tallying what I had eaten and realized I was doin' pretty well in the protein department. I kinda thought it was humorful, to be honest.

MIkeyG, I'm not to worry about pissing it out in an hour, given that my protein mixes were casein and whey, which elevate blood amino acids for 3-4 hours (when taken alone - likely longer when mixed w/ food). Given that I was eating every 2.5 - 3 hours, I think I was probably in positive nitrogen balance the whole day.

So, lets start a little discussion. Who's better off:

Subject A: Eats all his protein from food, but can only get down 300 grams / day
Subject B: Identical to subject A, except he eats 200g protein from food and gets an additional 200 from supplements.

Explain your reasoning...

-R

[In-Human]

R-, How many times have I told you, you can only assimulate 30 grams of protein at a meal, now I quote bobo here, lol.

Yes if you are in a crush for time that slug that shake down, and I know you know food is the way to go.

I am post and in a hurry for my shakes mostly...

[In-Human]

R-, You know you will not use all the 250-300 grams at one sitting, your system cannot assimulate that much unless you wieghed 450 lbs or so.

Now your senario of course you need more protein to equal or go above the 2 grams per lb of BW to increase muscle tissue.

I think your system would rather have the amino acid chains from solid food over broken down dried out casien anyday, do you think beef and whey even come close to a better form of aminos or a PER ratio for building muscle tissue?...

[xcelbeyond]

Subject A: Eats all his protein from food, but can only get down 300 grams / day
Subject B: Identical to subject A, except he eats 200g protein from food and gets an additional 200 from supplements.

Explain your reasoning...

BELIEVE IT OR NOT (aka Ripley)
I resemble Subject A based on my lifelong quest for best gains. Whenever I drink "a lot of" protein, I just seem to get fat.

My reasoning (it may not make any sense ) is that liquid protein just goes in and out of the system - doesn't do a lot to increase metabolism like digesting real food. So, body compensates (by assuming it's not getting a "continuous" feeding) by putting on fat.

Of course I still use True Protein for post workout drink and another during the day - but they're only ~50g protein apiece. I was drinking 3-a-day at ~80g apiece.

I just started a new gameplan related to nutrition and have been doing very nicely on 275-350g protein (based on activity that day).

Maybe my age has a lot to do with it. Randy made a statement once (related to pre-contest nutrition) that calories in must equal energy out - or something to that effect (you get my drift ). When I do the 4,000+ cal/day I just get FAT. I just need "more" protein (not excessive) to put on muscle but not to go overboard on total calories.

xcel

[homonunculus]

R-, You know you will not use all the 250-300 grams at one sitting, your system cannot assimulate that much unless you wieghed 450 lbs or so.

Now your senario of course you need more protein to equal or go above the 2 grams per lb of BW to increase muscle tissue.

I think your system would rather have the amino acid chains from solid food over broken down dried out casien anyday, do you think beef and whey even come close to a better form of aminos or a PER ratio for building muscle tissue?...

IH, What do you mean by "assimilate?" Absorption?

Yes, in that example, I chose those numbers somewhat carefully.

FYI: http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/proteinrating.html

-R

[homonunculus]

BELIEVE IT OR NOT (aka Ripley)
I resemble Subject A based on my lifelong quest for best gains. Whenever I drink "a lot of" protein, I just seem to get fat.

My reasoning (it may not make any sense ) is that liquid protein just goes in and out of the system - doesn't do a lot to increase metabolism like digesting real food. So, body compensates (by assuming it's not getting a "continuous" feeding) by putting on fat.

I just started a new gameplan related to nutrition and have been doing very nicely on 275-350g protein (based on activity that day).

Maybe my age has a lot to do with it. Randy made a statement once (related to pre-contest nutrition) that calories in must equal energy out - or something to that effect (you get my drift ). When I do the 4,000+ cal/day I just get FAT. I just need "more" protein (not excessive) to put on muscle but not to go overboard on total calories.

xcel

Xcel,

Yes, thermodynamics rule the roost. Interestingly, my carbs for that day were <600g (<100g for breakfast, <100g pasta at lunch and <400g w/ the sushi), putting me at < 5000kcal for the day.

Usually, when I'm in full-blown off-season mode, I need >= 6000 kcal to gain at all. Right now, post contest, I'm able to gain w/ less.

Xcel, I think I understand where you're coming from w/ the lower protein (probably had some origins in Phil's posts at PM), and I think its a valid approach, especially if its working, as you say!

I don't want anyone to regard this post as a suggestion that someone try to eat this way. (I should probably be more careful.) I usually don't get 750g protein / day - that is why I posted this: it seemed outrageous to me, too.

However, I do wonder how well it would work for gaining if you could put down 6000 kcal of protein / day, maintain muscle glycogen levels to train and keep blood ammonia and glucose (and ketones) at tolerable levels and not wreck your kidneys in the process.

Remember this article?...

http://www.basskilleronline.com/insulin_fatloss.html

-R

[In-Human]

IH, What do you mean by "assimilate?" Absorption?

Yes, in that example, I chose those numbers somewhat carefully.

FYI: http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/proteinrating.html

-R

Well of course "assimilate" means absorbtion.

And I forgot PER is not used anymore its now BV.

I am sorry but I do not beleive the two are assimilated in your system the same way, food will be used more effectively than whey due to its manufacturing and you can always drink more kcals then you can eat...

[In-Human]

However, I do wonder how well it would work for gaining if you could put down 6000 kcal of protein / day, maintain muscle glycogen levels to train and keep blood ammonia and glucose (and ketones) at tolerable levels and not wreck your kidneys in the process.

You do not have a choice, excess protein will put a lot of stress on your kidneys and liver just to deal with the onslaught of all you have at one meal, every single persone will assimilate a different amount and a lot of factors are here to look at, life style, stress and exercise level and of course as you know fluid intake to help flush your system constantly.

So the only way to experiment with this is to have urea sticks to urinate on and have a Chem Panel done weekly to see where your Kidneys and Liver stand on your protein absorbtion and waste...

[Subliminal]

You guys are confusing me with all this back and forth info! So where does the unused protein end up? It stores as fat right?

[In-Human]

You guys are confusing me with all this back and forth info! So where does the unused protein end up? It stores as fat right?

Everyones system will react differnet to everything in excess in your system, I am a perfect machine at storing everything in excess as fat, so metabolism can make a major difference here...