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  • Cuff Problems need a lil advice.

    Not shirt cuff I wish.
    Rotator cuffs...my left one which I beleive I very very slightly tore or strained a year and a half ago is now been really bothering me during training.
    A lot of immobility, and stiffness.
    Without going into past problems and therapies I'll state what I have at my disposal.
    I got a shoulder horn and a complete home gym.
    ART isn't an option as the only guy in my area that does it is 1 hr away.
    Any special techniques other than training the cuff muscles with light weights 2 times a week and stretching?

    What's fucked is that I can do (330) heavy Behind the neck presses with little pain..but Inclines forget it once I hit 315....ouch.
    I am back DC training again with out the pauses for now but I did fix the problem somewhat by keeping the weight at a respectable level <350 and doing superslow reps to increase the tension but not apply extreme weight before.
    THIS was the technique that I used when it was strained or torn and it got me through it and healed.
    Now lately even the slow techniques is hurting, and today I am going to do a pre-exhaust on my last set instead of heavy weight....like a set of 8 reps with 200 lbs on the flye machine immediately followed by 8 reps on the Incline Smith with less than <350.
    Also I have been doing BACK first before chest as it gets a lot of blood in the area-believe it or not.
    I really hate to keep working around it and dissecting the program because it is limiting progress.
    AAS and anti-inflammatories are not an option right now...nor do I want them to be.

    so any tips would be appreciated.

    Here's a tip in advance to you young lifters....take care of your cuffs!

    DC training would have actually saved mine versus the heavy ass compound movements done for many sets for years prior. :Punch:
    Massive G
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  • #2
    i messed up my right rotator cuff about three months ago and beside the standard rotator cuff exercises i found face pulls very very helpful.

    most bodybuilders arent aware of this exercise but most powerlifters use it to help keep their shoulders healthy.

    there are two ways to do it and i alternate them between workouts.

    attach the rope handle to to the low cable row station. make sure the pulley is as low as possible. use a light weight to start and chances are you wont ever be able to use much weight anyways. keeping your back straight and perpendicular to the ground pull the rope handle to eye level with your elbows pulled out as much as possible and a little bit up. do two sets of 15-20

    the second way to do it is to use pulley in the cable crossover station. attach the rope handle to the pulley and adjust the pulley so that it is roughly 5' above the ground (you will have to play around with this to see what feels comfortable to you). sit about 3-4' from the pulley on the floor with your legs out in front of you. pull the rope handle to your eyes and try to pull your elbows out as wide as possible. two sets of 15-20 works just fine with this too but you may have to attach a dumbell to the stack if it isnt heavy enough
    It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.

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    • #3
      i have heard that PNF stretching can be quite helpful with the cuffs too but it would be damn near impossible for me to give you a coherent explanation of it in words alone. try googling PNF and you might find something more helpful then me
      It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.

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      • #4
        Massive G,

        I played baseball into college and have known a bunch of people that have had rotator cuff problems, though not from lifting.

        That said, if you have a legitimate tear, this is not something that generally can heal appropriately without surgery. That said, most people I knew with torn rotator cuffs couldn't possibly have inclined 315 with their injuries.

        The #1 problem I have seen with teammates that had cuff problems was pulling motions behind the neck - rack chins, lat pulls to the rear, etc, when they tried to pull all the way down to the base of their necks (OUCH). Behind the neck shoulder presses were far less problematic than the pulls, ironically. Limited sample size, mind you, but I figured it was worth passing on.

        -Clemente

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        • #5
          Originally posted by nemo
          i messed up my right rotator cuff about three months ago and beside the standard rotator cuff exercises i found face pulls very very helpful.

          most bodybuilders arent aware of this exercise but most powerlifters use it to help keep their shoulders healthy.

          there are two ways to do it and i alternate them between workouts.

          attach the rope handle to to the low cable row station. make sure the pulley is as low as possible. use a light weight to start and chances are you wont ever be able to use much weight anyways. keeping your back straight and perpendicular to the ground pull the rope handle to eye level with your elbows pulled out as much as possible and a little bit up. do two sets of 15-20

          the second way to do it is to use pulley in the cable crossover station. attach the rope handle to the pulley and adjust the pulley so that it is roughly 5' above the ground (you will have to play around with this to see what feels comfortable to you). sit about 3-4' from the pulley on the floor with your legs out in front of you. pull the rope handle to your eyes and try to pull your elbows out as wide as possible. two sets of 15-20 works just fine with this too but you may have to attach a dumbell to the stack if it isnt heavy enough
          what

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          • #6
            Thanks Nemo and Clemente for the responses.
            I am gonna try a few things here you suggested.
            I doubt it's torn it's just flaring up again..been of the bean for over three months so I guiess it's time to break down....

            Thanks again I knew I'd get some good answers here....on Mayhem I'd probably get flamed....
            Massive G
            Discount Code MASSG

            www.trueprotein.com

            Discount Code MASSG

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            • #7
              Hey G are you taking any anti inflammatories?
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              • #8
                here is a pic
                It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.

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                • #9
                  variation
                  It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.

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                  • #10
                    Ice massage is your best friend with rotator cuff problems...
                    If you can find the point that is the most tender - where the tendon is the most inflammed - take a block of ice (freeze a dixie cup full of water and peel off some of the paper) and rub it over that spot for 3-5 minutes until it is numb and bright red... then take your thumb (or index finger with the middle finger crossed over on top of it) and push into the spot (hard) and rub ACROSS the tendon for 3 minutes... then ice again for a minute or so...

                    What you are doing is first - obviously - numbing the area... then the cross fiber massage you are doing helps to break apart the damaged and misaligned fibers in the tendon and bring increased bloodflow to the area to promote healing... the ice also helps to stop the proliferation of abnormal blood vessals in the area... the next step would be exercise - which puts the area under tension and promotes realignment and laying down of new healthy collagen fibers...

                    That and a quality anti-inflammatory like bextra or celebrex will get things going on the right track (i know you said you don't want to take them...). If you go the anti-inflammatory route keep in mind that something like ibuprofen takes 6 weeks of continuous use to have an anti-inflammatory effect; naprosin (aleve) takes 8 weeks; the new drugs like celebrex and bextra start working in 1-2 weeks...

                    That was probably overkill - but the point is: Do ice massage, it works.

                    TrueNutrition.com discount code: AAL229 saves you 5%

                    Feel free to PM me with injury questions - I'll get back to you soon as I can.

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                    • #11
                      Nemo - those pictures look like you are putting the shoulder into a position that we use to check for impingement - probably not the kind of thing you want to do with an irritated rotator cuff... unless I'm not getting it still...

                      TrueNutrition.com discount code: AAL229 saves you 5%

                      Feel free to PM me with injury questions - I'll get back to you soon as I can.

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                      • #12
                        Hey G, sorry to hear about the shoulder!

                        I use to do a lot of shoulder pressing, sometimes every day and that eventually led to a slight rotator problem of my own.
                        Similar to the rope pulls that Nemo suggested, whenever it was bothering me, I would take a olympic bar and do upright rows. I would start with just the bar and add a little weight. I would concentrate on pulling the elbows back at the top and it really seemed to help me a bunch.

                        Best of luck
                        jim
                        ain't it the shit? Just wait til you guys/gals see some of the strength jumps lol..and the size you put on!
                        Good luck
                        Jimpaul/Newtoketo

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                        • #13
                          Here are a couple of links to info that might be useful for shoulder issues or general tendonitis... they are posts from another message board, so if this is inappropriate let me know - or just delete them.

                          Article on bodybuilders and shoulder problems: http://www.forcedrep.com/viewtopic.php?t=2546

                          Article on tendonitis/tenonosis and proper treatment: http://www.forcedrep.com/viewtopic.php?t=2553

                          Hopefully that info is useful...

                          TrueNutrition.com discount code: AAL229 saves you 5%

                          Feel free to PM me with injury questions - I'll get back to you soon as I can.

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                          • #14
                            PTAaron you should Ice Massage for 8-10 minutes as the longer treatment the deeper the numbing. Great Advice Bro.

                            MG the strengthening exercises recommended here are great, but all for nothing if you don't break the inflammation process. A 10 min. Ice massage after your workouts, with a little vioxx will have you feeling great in a little over a week. But if your rotator cuff doesn't break the inflammation the cycle will repeat, slowly eating you muscle tissue away and cause a tear.

                            I hope things get better soon for you
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                            • #15
                              Thanks for the info PT Nemo Jim and row....lots of good stuff.
                              I have done the ice and the massage before, I'll try it again.
                              I have done ART before and it helped a little but did not cure the problem the problem seems to be deeply rooted under a lot of muscle and the therapist would be winded like a mofo.
                              I have tried the ART on myself the same technique and used flat instruments to do the pass over with limited success I have tried to teach my past and current girl(s) how to do it and each one was crying it hurt their fingers and some said they didn't wanna break their nails. LOL

                              Therapies attempted in the past.
                              DMSO/Massage
                              DMSO/Ibuprofen topically
                              IPA/Ibuprofen topically
                              The joint supplements including gelatin gluco and chron and MSM
                              Heated Massage
                              Iced Massage
                              Deep Tissue Massage
                              ART
                              Rotator cuff exercises-shoulder horn
                              Celebrex
                              Deca
                              GH
                              Stretching
                              layoff of training on one side for 2 weeks-I did smith presses one arm on both Chest and shoulders and it was brutal but helped a bit.
                              Reduced weight and allowed the TUT to stimulate muscles to ease the weight on the joints.

                              I finally procurred GH and tried it after many years to 'heal" the shoulder and it did somewhat but the continued lack of motion and immobility continue.
                              Obviously there is a lot of scar tissue to break up.

                              Last nights work out was this
                              Lat Pulldowns-325 x 8
                              BB Bent rows-355 x 9 + 355 x 8 Deadlifts and 355 x 8 shrugs with out setting the bar down.
                              Stretch
                              Incline BB BP-335 x 8 after pre exhausting with Machine Flyes 200 x 8
                              Flye Stretch.
                              Presses Behind the neck smith standing-315 x 9
                              Standing french presses-195 x 8

                              I didn't include warm ups here as not to bore you, and I did BB free weight to allow a slight arch to the motion of the bar, and pre -exhing like I said.
                              did back first to wam up delts even more.
                              This isn't a recommended work out especially my tri set on bb rows, but I miss rest pausing and even though I can do it with lighter weights and increased TUT with it it's not the same...

                              I am clean now and don't wanna mess with anything as I am on and have been on Celebrex for a while. I am still getting routine blood work done and trying to prove to my doctor that certain levels will always be higer in athletes that train very heavy and supercompensate their nutrition.

                              any how thank you for the feed back and I'll keep you updated.
                              Last edited by Massive G; 07-20-2004, 11:20 AM.
                              Massive G
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                              Discount Code MASSG

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