Off time

[rugbythug]

I have been off since the first week of may after being on for around a year. The hormone rebound has been a total bitch-I was cutting for my contest and pigged out right after. I have gained about 30lbs of mostly fat. That has stabalized. But I look like crap IMO. My weights are improving weekly via DC style work out. However My sex drive is 0.0 and that is disheartening. My nads are not tiny but I would say only 3/4 of the size they should be? Hard to say really. In-Human has helped me a ton with PCT but I am just getting discouraged. Should I just jump on again? Will the gains be that much better if I stay off till I am normal-If I get normal. What do you long cycle lovers do?

[Massive G]

Tough call.The longer you stay off and on the clomid/hcg/nolva etc... the better your body will respond when you do go back on.Sadly RockyIII isn't here anymore but he'd probably tell you to check out some Cialis or something......LOL

[In-Human]

rugbythug, IMO you need to give it time, your HPTA will not jump right back to where it was pre cycle, everyone responds a bit different to PCT, so give it sometime, I would stick to training and cardio stay on check with your diet so all the E build up you have won't be so detrimental...

[bigp3]

I read something recently and I believe it was in MD, Arthur L Rea article he writes, but I believe he said that HCG is more effective with low dose testosterone therapy, now don't take me for fact on this I could be wrong. Does anyone else remember reading this?

[Massive G]

That's interesting.I need to go read that information.I wonder though how would you be able to differentiate which (the HCG or the test) was having a positive effect on your HTPA if you were doing them both at the same time?

[Swellin]

I've got a 45 year old friend who just came off after a year on. He went with something like this:
Extended protocol sample for a 12+ month cycle:
Day 1-15_ .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva
Day 16-45_.25mg L-dex + 75mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva
Day 46-65_.25mg L-dex + 20mg Nolva

He also used 4g of tribulus ED. He said that he rebounded very nicely. It seems that adding tribulus made a world of difference. I have seen quite a few others who swear by trib. Just something to think about.

[In-Human]

Swellin, Each PCT needs to be a little different depending on duration of cycle and amount used, some people have strange reation to certain PCT drugs, so it can get specific...

[rugbythug]

Personally I never really notice much from pct drugs. I am a little weepy on clomid and arimidex makes me carry less water other than that not a whole lot.

[bigp3]

Originally posted by FrigginHuge
That's interesting.I need to go read that information.I wonder though how would you be able to differentiate which (the HCG or the test) was having a positive effect on your HTPA if you were doing them both at the same time?

I will have to look for that article, I believe it was in last month or the months before MD. I know he said something about a negative feedback loop and that HCG does not work well without some androgens present, but I dont remember the specifics. So, I am wondering if something like proviron would be enough to compensate.

[In-Human]

bigp3, IMO I think that HCG is the best way to get your Leydig's a bump to get those boys back in gear, I know that HCG just mimics LH, so you must have Colmid, Novla and Cyclofenil to help restore the realease of Testosterone.

And I do think that Arimidex is great for the whole cycle at .5 to 1 mg throughout and great for lowering water retention as Rugby said...

[bigp3]

that is the PC that I usually follow myself, I was just curious if anyone else knew anything about the article I was talking about. I am going to make it my mission to find it today.

[In-Human]

bigp3, Thank you, and I have not seen the article yet, but I would like to see it...

[bigp3]

I am scanning my mags for it right now

[bigp3]

OK, I could not find the specific article but I did find a great one on PC recovery in the June issue of MD's "Building the Perfect Beast". You may want to read this one yourself it is a little too much for me to repost here, but in a nutshell he said that it can take up to 3 months to recover from long term androgen use. He also made it clear that prolactin control is critical especially if Tren or Nadrolones have been used. Now I know most of us do not include prolactin control in our PC, so I thought this was interesting. Take a look at the article, I think it will answer a lot of questions.

[rugbythug]

so it sounds like I need to pony up for some HCG-Remember I have not been on for 6 weeks plus. Would it be better to shoot a small cycle-

500mg test
400 mg EQ
for 8 weeks
and then do the HCG with clomid and nolva run? Or get HCG now and Shoot it and do a second run of clomid starting there?

My body is just in a mixed up mode now-I want off but I want off in a way that I will get normal the quickest so I can get back on again. LOL I think I am sick!