Qs for DoggCrapp <about 'extending' a set>

[Divinity]

Dogg, after reading and thinking on your training manual and your CFP posts,and your trainee`s experience...about one week ago,I`ve decided to leave my old Jonessian HIT (whole body wo 3x /week), because I feel overtrained using that protocol...my gain is going to be slower and sloweeeer, I think It would be ZERO...that wholebody workout overtaxed my CNS, I can`t recover fully even if I reduce my workouts to 2x /week ...at the beginning when I use Jonessian HIT about 6 months ago, my strength + muscle gain is amazing, but that Jonessian HIT quickly make me overtaining...I also have mildly injured my shoulder (rotator cuff) a couple months ago when doing Flat Barbel and Dumbell BP, I never got answer why my shoulder injured,and still doing Flat Barbel and Dumbell BP.....but after I read and explore your posts, I realize that Flat Barbel and Dumbell BP is the cause!!!, so I decided to use your protocol...leave that 'flatty things' and doing Incline Smith with long negative phase (approx 6-8sec), using that, my shoulder` pain seems to fade...thanks Dogg... :showoff:

Dogg,I have some questions on my mid about 'extending set'...please give me your opinions...

As the HIT`s Old Testament [Nautilus Bulettin 2] chapter 33,Jones writes "If you practice less than six repetitions, it is unlikely that you will actually work far inside the momentarily-existing level of reserve ability" , then we realize that a we must first drain muscle`s energy store <exhaust it> so that we working far outside momentarily-existing level of reserve ability, Jones always stated that the last reps is the most productive reps...but we should not add extra set because that will impede our muscle growth (overtraining)...facing that dillema...according Matt Brzycki, in order to maxmize the result without being overtrained, we must 'extend' that "a set" using Forced Reps, Partials, Rest Pause,etc...

Mike`s Heavy Duty mainly using forced reps (and Rest Pause on singles), Dorian Yates also combined forced reps and rest pause,etc...Trevor`s BFT using heavy Drop Sets to extend a set (you have giving opinion about BFT` Drop Sets on the CFP posts...thanks for that...)...

I greatly agree with "Strength gain=Muscle gain" concept...I`ve read Mike`s Heavy Duty Journal on http://www.ironmanmagazine.com/detai...1&page_count=2 and found that Rest Pause singles makes strength phenomenal gain, and phenomenal muscle gain too...some bodybuilders on my gym also make great strength gain with Rest Pause singles, they are stay on the same diet, their bodyweight isn`t increase, but their muscle look 'different'...

My questions are:

1.What do you think about extending a set with some Rest Pause singles (with heavier weight) <after "a normal set"> ? Why do you prefer using more than single rep to extend a set? [8+4+3]?

2.What do you think about extending a set with some partials {with heavier weight} (I`ve read on musclemayhem forum that Silverback also uses this), what is your own opinion about that?

3.What do you think about extending a set with forced reps like what Dorian Yates and Mike Mentzer do?

I`ve searching on the whole CFP and "The Dogg Logg" on musclemayhem forum about the answers for that three questions, but I don`t find any clue...so please help me to answer that questions,Dogg...I belive that your bodybuilding experience is so vast, so I decide to ask that three questions directly to you...sorry for the inconvience...

Thanks...

[Doggcrapp]

Very simply, (and because Im just about to hit the sack) your overlooking a huge part of this divinity. Most people around you are training bodyparts once a week, I have people training 2x every 8 days. By and large my guys are gaining almost 2x as fast as others. Joe1 trains chest 52 times a year while Joe2 trains chest 90 times a year....Ill take 90 growth phases in a year over 52 anytime. How can i do that? By having a person not totally destroy himself into oblivion by thinking what he does today in this workout is the end all. Once a growth response is reached during a workout anything past that is pretty much burning up glycogen (and maybe going into catabolism if you go to far with it) and more importantly delving into your recovery. Trust me I played with this alot thru the early 90's and late 90's till early 2000's to get this right in my eyes. If you keep extending a set thru more rest pauses or more statics or more forced reps how the hell am i going to get you recovered in time so you can train chest again on friday after mondays chest workout? This is a trip from point A to point B at the fastest time possible. I tried different rest pause schemes with people i trained locally and with myself and the best way came out to what you see today. If I could squat incredibly heavy on a daily basis and recover I would but I cant (noone can) and its the same thing with thinking absolutely annihilating yourself today is the best plan of action, it isnt because its going to stop me in a short time to getting you recovered to train said bodypart again....I want a planned progression so I can get you recovered to progressively train 2x every 8 days and keep you constantly growing. I have tried moving this up to more frequent bodypart training than 2x every 8 days and up to 8 rest pauses and it was just blowing people out....what you see me doing with people today has alot (and i mean alot) of trial and error to it.

[Divinity]

Thanks for your answer, Dogg...that really helps me a lot... :showoff:

Dogg...

I have this question dancing on my mind...please help me again about this....this is from my former personal experience, but I`ll illustrated that with an analogy as a case...I`ve searching and searchiiing again about this subject...but as the more informations I get, I get more confused than before...LOL... :chair:

Here the story goes...

************************************************** ********************************
There are two subjects...A and B, both of them are on the same height, weight and same bodyfat percentage [10.5 percent]...both of them are not obese...both of them has been training steadily for 3 years...

Subject A making a progress...on the last workout, he can do bench press for 8 reps with 300 pounds, but on his workout today, he can do 322 pounds for 6...BUT he lost about 6 lbs on his bodyweight...

Subject B making a progress...on the last workout, he can do bench press for 8 reps with 300 pounds, but on his workout today, he can do 313 pounds for 8...he also has increased his bodyweight about 3.75 lbs...

Both subject using strict form on each reps [no cheating, each reps is on a smooth speed so that there`s no kinetic energy involved on each reps]...taken into failure...

************************************************** ********************************

What do you think about that case? who makes greater gain? Subject A or Subject B?

Some experts say that subject A making a greater gain, his losing 6 lbs is bodyfat loss, because he is building more muscle...but some others say that subject B make greater gain, because both of his present lift and present weight are on a progress...

I`m often encounter this case on my training years, but still confused to the get answer for this case...

I belive that your vast knowledge experience on training can help me on answering this, Dogg...

Thanks...

[BigDownUnder]

Bump

[rubinsteinnyc]

dante left this question unanswered?!

[Massive G]

dante left this question unanswered?!

probably because that guy wrote a lot but said NOTHING if you know what I mean.
Who microanalyzes progress like that?
DAMN.

the Answer is
C. The guy that made the most progress is the one that grinded out 325 for 8 on the INCLINE BP, beating his previous log book entry by 20 lbs or so.:peace: :moon:

[BigDownUnder]

Bump

This search function here rocks - so much info @ the tip of your fingers.

Hint hint

[homonunculus]

What do you think about that case? who makes greater gain? Subject A or Subject B?

Some experts say that subject A making a greater gain, his losing 6 lbs is bodyfat loss, because he is building more muscle...but some others say that subject B make greater gain, because both of his present lift and present weight are on a progress...

A "gain" in what? "Gain" depends on the goal...

Answer: E.) Not enough information is provided.

-R

[IronReload 04]

i think a reasonable person can speculate that the fat loss plus weight jump is the greater gain

for me, personally, it always works out like this, add 10 pounds, lose 2 reps=nuetral no progress..........add 10 pounds lose 1 rep=progress

so lets take a look here

the way i figure

subject a picks up 10 points (assuming 320)

subject b picks up 15 points (assuming 315) your numbers are bogus dude, nobody uses these kind of numbers seriously

subject b had a greater gain in strength.....so in terms of muscle mass, subject b benefits more.....

so fat loss aside, subject b is the winner hands down


I hope that answers your question

[IronReload 04]

this is so irrelevent........both subjects made awesome progress.......their both winners