Upset!!!

**Big Lee** · 08-20-2006, 11:21 PM

I followed Yates style (very low sets 2-3 per bodypart ) and trained each bodypart once every 9 days. I did this for the first 18 months of my training and put on 35lb of pure muscle. I then started DC training as the logical progression. Lifter, relax dude, dont let anything some dude says tarnish your view on Mike. He is no longer with us and he tried to help people get bigger and stronger the best he knew how when he was here so just chill, its raising your cortisol levels and you wont grow. Remember that everything works for certain people under certain conditions. I knew a guy who was a hard 250 lb and all he did was chop wood for his grandmother. RIP Mike.

**Lifter** · 08-21-2006, 04:52 AM

Thanks Big Lee, nice input! To be expected I guess from a fellow Adelaideien. I guess it was a knee-jerk reaction to be lied too... I'm fine now. Carry on gentlemen.

**sus** · 08-21-2006, 06:48 AM

i followed h.i.t for 2 years and i grow,and got a shit load stronger....but then hit a wall and tryed DC.. Mike was an bright man be4 he went a bit nuts,some of his ideas where spot on and some where way off,but he was one in a million ,when he was about it was 20-25set a body part at least he showed me the way,and gave me the idea that my mind is the most powerfull thing when training,and my mind is the only thing holding me back. R.I.P mike, god bless

**Lifter** · 08-21-2006, 07:04 AM

Proof!

This is all the conformation I needed -- from Robby Robinson himself!

LIFTER-----WITH ALL RESPECT TO MIKE, BACK IN THE DAY THAT WAS THE STORY, BUT FEW TALKED ABOUT IT. HE MADE A LOT OF MONEY AND IT’S A UNWRITTEN LAW THAT YOU DON’T MESS WITH A MAN’S POCKET BOOK. THE OTHER PROS ONLY TALKED ABOUT IT AMONG THEMSELVES. SORRY TO SAY BUT MANY YOUNG TRAINEES BOUGHT THE LANGUAGE AND PERSONALITY. THE TIMING WAS RIGHT; BODYBUILDING WAS FRESH AND EXCITING. HE USED THE MAGAZINE TO SELL HIS TRAINING STYLE AND THE MAGAZINES USED HIM FOR CREATING A STIR. THERE IS NO QUICK WAY TO SERIOUS MUSCLE DEVELOPMENT. YOU HAVE TO PAY A PRICE, IF YOU WANT MUSCLE LIKE THE OLD GANG. YOU CAN INCORPORATE HEAVY MAX LIFTING WITH OTHER APPROACHES, BUT IT CAN’T STAND ALONE. IF I WAS A PRO TODAY, MY GOAL WOULD STILL BE 20 SETS A BODY PART. MUSCLES NEEDS TO BE BEATEN AND MOLDED INTO SHAPE. THEN MINDSET, FOCUS, VISUALIZATION AND GREAT EATING HABITS SHOULD BE A DAILY PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO CHECK INTO WITH YOURSELF EACH AND EVERY DAY.
PEACE, ROBBY

So I was right. Still, I hear all your others, and appreciate what you are saying. I guess on the upside if it weren't for Mike I might have bought into Arnold's stuff, and who knows where that would have got me!!! LOL

**sus** · 08-21-2006, 08:06 AM

if u would of brought into arnolds style u would of bin taxing your body to the max and over,unless u a gen freak like arnold..

**Lifter** · 08-21-2006, 09:42 AM

That was what I was hinting at Sus. Talking to Serge Nubret recently, and how his high volume has resulted in two hip replacements, bought it all into perspective why I was never a volume trainee. Not even when I was befriended by John Defendis in the late 90's and he kept at me to switch to his 'Intensity or Insanity' style of training. I chose sanity! LOL

**RCH** · 08-21-2006, 02:28 PM

Lifter,

It seems like you have sorted this stuff out for yourself already, but I thought I would just add my 2 cents worth.

I was at Gold's in the late summer of 1980 and trained there for about a month or so. I saw Mike and Ray training together (with another 3rd guy... don't know who) and it sure looked like Heavy Duty to me. I didn't count their sets, but everything they did was right in line with what I had been reading about HIT.

On a side note, if you thought the guy in Dorian's video was loud, you should have heard Ray screaming at Mike during their workouts... almost comical.

I saw Viator train arms once (225lbs curls), but I only saw a bit of his workout, so I can't say if he was training HIT or not. Ridiculously thick arms though.

Anyway, hope this sheds a little extra light on the subject for you.

Brian

**redrum** · 08-22-2006, 09:33 AM

Years ago I was personally trained by Mentzer over the phone. I am pretty sure he believed in his method. I quit getting results and he continued to call me for free, even after my payments ran out, and figue out why.

**Big EG** · 08-22-2006, 10:21 AM

You really, really shouldn't confer "Guru Status" on anyone. It's a guaranteed way to dissappointment. Gossip is also gossip. Did he often do 12 sets (excluding warmups)? Maybe he believed that for individuals of average genetics, less is more, but that the gifted can tolerate more work? Did he feel that was something people of average genetics didn't need to know? Dante frequently says he keeps some stuff from the boards because it would be misinterpreted and used innapropriately. Like Dante said, he wouldn't purposefully prescribe something ineffective. Maybe he felt he was "married" to his concepts and that after all those years, even though he felt that more volume was tolerable or effective, couldn't professionnally walk away from pure Heavy Duty. I say don't throw out your Mentzer collection. Just try to see the limitations to his philosophy (or any other philosophy).

**Lifter** · 08-22-2006, 10:33 AM

Thanks guys, your input and feedback is much appreciated.

**jnation** · 08-24-2006, 02:58 AM

Originally posted by Sparky

Are you certain that your source is reliable? Can anyone else back it up? You are accusing Mike of lying but he isn't around to defend himself. There are plenty of liars around and perhaps your information is coming from a) a liar or b) somebody who is misinformed or jumped to conclusions.

Amen...
Joe Meeko is already a forgotten competitor.

**crazyE** · 08-24-2006, 07:19 AM

Originally posted by MoGeaYuglay

i'd love to catch Dante working out high-volume style, preferably with pink dumbbells with inverted pinky doing curls, just so i can point and yell loudly...

"HA!"

and walk away...

(really doubt i'll ever find him doing that...even if he does...his "program" is working just fine for me so whatever)

LOL that made me laugh, nice one lol

**leegee38** · 08-24-2006, 06:05 PM

Lifter, I'm not sure this is helpful to you, but I'm old enough to have been friends with some of the guys who trained at Gold's in the late 70s. I think it is safe to say that "everybody" saw Mike do more than one set, but I also think "everybody" would agree that he did far less than any other top bodybuilder at the time. Also, as recently as early 1979 (before he got heavily into rest pause) he was selling a course that recommended TWO work sets of many of the exercises, and that is of course after his warmups. That could easily be seen as 3-5 sets by someone watching.

His stuff in the 90's and beyond was theoretical and tested on clients, not by Mike personally. That is when he started thinking that training should be cut back so drastically, but he hadn't competed or even trained for 12-13 years at that point.

Mike had a huge impact on me as well, and while he was definitely a flawed human being I don't believe he went out of his way to deceive anyone. I'll bet if you think about it you will find his influence on you was basically positive. Good luck with your training!

**poopmonkey** · 08-24-2006, 06:40 PM

As a sidenote, there are a lot of jealous bastards out there.

And if someone has any type of financial success whatsoever, there will always be 100 other guys who want to talk shit about the guy simply because he's making money.

**Hdsucks** · 01-23-2023, 11:12 AM

Yes, methzer did indeed lie. He used volume to build up. John Terilli trained with mentzer and saw him do 25 sets for the back. Hit has never produced a champion. 50 years and where are all the big and developed hitters?

Upset!!!

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