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What does DC think about IGF1?

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  • What does DC think about IGF1?

    wondering whats his thoughts on IGF-1... I know he trains some big guys, does he suggest using it ?

  • #2
    I moved this to DC's forum where he is more likely to see it......
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    • #3
      I asked him some time ago on his thoughts on igf and gh. Go with gh....
      Train like a freak, every time.

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      • #4
        bump

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        • #5
          I'd go with LR3 IGF-1 if you want to avoid the HGH gut. IGF-2 can cause your small intestines to grow and HGH does stimulate IGF-2. I'll post a study on LR3 IGF-1 and it effect on the small intestine

          JohnnyB
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          • #6
            Here it is

            The role of insulin-like growth factors in small intestinal cell growth and development.

            MacDonald RS.

            Nutritional Sciences Program, University of Missouri, Columbia, USA. [email protected]

            IGF-I and IGF-II receptors are expressed in the small intestine of mammalian species, as are the genes to synthesize both peptides. IGF binding proteins are also expressed in the intestine. IGF-I and IGF-II mRNA are highest in fetal and newborn tissues and decrease with age. IGF-I mRNA is present in the adult small intestine, and is associated with the submucosal regions and crypt cells. IGF-I and IGF-II receptor binding to the small intestine is higher in newborn animals and decreases with age. Both receptors are more concentrated in the crypt than villus regions, but IGF-II binding is higher than IGF-I in all regions. IGF-I receptors are associated with the submucosal region of the small intestine, whereas IGF-II receptors are more abundant in the mucosal cells. Administration of IGF-I either orally or by osmotic pump generally has no affect on small intestinal weight or length, but does increase mucosal cellularity. LR3-IGF-I administration by osmotic pump affects the small intestine similarly to IGF-I, although with a higher potency. In the few studies in which IGF-II was administered, increased gut mass was observed in adult rats, but not newborn rats or pigs. Significant effects on mucosal expression of disaccharidases was achieved with either oral or subcutaneous IGF-I or oral IGF-II. Administration of IGF in models of intestinal hypertrophy and atrophy are also reviewed.

            JohnnyB
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            • #7
              I would personally wait on that stuff until you hit a plateau

              The money can definetly be spent on something better, FOOD, just buy more [email protected]!
              Last edited by babygetoboy; 04-13-2004, 11:45 PM.
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              • #8
                Ok the real problem here is "are you using legitimate real IGF" --the stuff is so incredibly fragile in substance that I think thats half the problem (making the trip from china), temperature variations, vigorous shaking during transportation etc etc etc.---I look at things in simplier forms on this level of GH and IGF. How many people out of 10 do you see raving about IGF? Three out of 10? Four out of 10? Alot of that has to do with source, fragility again, and basically if what you have is legit or not. How many people use GH and rave about it 7 out of 10? 8 out of 10? Nine out of 10? Both of these cost mucho money to use longterm, in my eyes for that kind of dough go with what you know is working for most people for the time being until you find something that is a definite and absolute.
                @dante_trudel

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                • #9
                  GH gut is caused by insulin use and continual force feeding




                  Originally posted by JohnnyB
                  I'd go with LR3 IGF-1 if you want to avoid the HGH gut. IGF-2 can cause your small intestines to grow and HGH does stimulate IGF-2. I'll post a study on LR3 IGF-1 and it effect on the small intestine

                  JohnnyB

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by gorilla2015
                    GH gut is caused by insulin use and continual force feeding
                    No actually it's not..... It's caused by the growth of the intestines.....

                    Please explain how insulin would give you gut distention???
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                    • #11
                      I believe it to be many things--accumalation of viscerial fat from insulin and high androgens, instestinal growth, continual feeding distention--etc etc etc

                      Duchaine was doing a big article on viscerial gut fat from usage of high androgens and insulin usage but I dont think he published it before he died. I think people mislabel anyone who has a pronounced gut as gh gut. Theres plenty of below 250lbers doing gh but they dont have the extended gut but when is the last time you saw a very large 260 to 325lb offseason bodybuilder without an extended gut? almost never --Jay Cutler comes to mind and thats the only one I can think of--everyone else is distended. Force feeding to get to that higher bodyweight plus the weight of a 150lb torso weighing down on the focal axis all day long (back and abs) in my mind is what potentiates a distended gut. For any plus 275lber in this forum remember the last time you went for a long walk at a mall or wherever, was your back aching at the end of the day and was your gut sticking out by the end of the day? Something has to give when you grow tired of lugging that extra 100lbs of body mass (above and over what a normal human being is supposed to weigh)
                      @dante_trudel

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                      • #12
                        I remember hearing about what was called king kong gut with steroid users or at least that's what the article called it.

                        JohnnyB
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                        • #13
                          I do see what DC is talking about-if you haul around an extra 100 pounds of torso it could distend the gut section.

                          But when I look back at pics of Arnold, Sergio, Franco-these guys had huge upper body mass but a very small waist/gut line. IGF and gh weren't around in the mid 1970's. Any ideas? I am all ears.

                          I am very interested in what causes the intestinal/gut growth-because I want to avoid that. At the same time I am very interested in IGF and GH-if I can possibly use these items without any ab distention I would like to try it.

                          Also I did read where supposedly there are more IGF receptors in the intestines than anywhere else in the body. I can't swear that is the gospel-I simply do not know enough about IGF or GH to make an educated comment on these compounds (as far as distended bellies is concerned).

                          I am not only interested in igf and gh for BBing but for life extention. IMO there is a correlation b/n premature aging and decline of hormones such as testosterone and GH (maybe even insulin sensitivity plays a role in premature aging too).

                          Any info the knowledgeable bros care to post about IGF and GH will be a welcome read by me. Thanks, SS
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                          • #14
                            It is dosage related, because any IGF (from IGF-1 or GH) that can not be used by the highest concentration of receptors (the muscles) will go to the second highest concentration of receptors, which are the extremisties (I.E. the feet, hands, jaw, and intestines....) So if your dosage is right and can be used, then you SHOULD not get these side effects...... Thats why more is not necessarily better with GH and IGF-1.

                            DC: Viceral gut fat can play a role I agree... And force feeding could also play a role..... But I don't believe that those two things alone will give the distended gut look of the pros with the real bad guts........ I think that is definitely linked to intestinal growth.
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                            • #15
                              Arnold, Zane, and I believe a whole lot of other bodybuilders from the 70's used to practice a abdominal vacuum. You don't hear much about it nowadays. Basically you start out on all 4's and suck in your abs as far as possible while blowing all of the air out of your insides and holding/tensing the abs. As you progress you work up to a seated position and then a standing one. If nothing else it will give you better abdominal control.

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