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    I just dont understand why you see guys allways saying if you want to get lean you shouldnt eat carbs and fat together in the same meal? These must be the guys that loose a shit load of muscle while dieting

  • #2
    Originally posted by PUMPED
    Why?
    Coz I say so..

    ok.. that was low

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Anadrol
      Coz I say so..

      ok.. that was low

      good one but for real why?

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      • #4
        They are basing that suggestion on the fact that your body can only burn one of them for energy at a time......

        But I think minimizing one or the other in each meal is really what they mean..... because it would be pretty hard to eat a meal with no carbs or no fat at all.....
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        • #5
          Originally posted by crankin'stein
          They are basing that suggestion on the fact that your body can only burn one of them for energy at a time......

          But I think minimizing one or the other in each meal is really what they mean..... because it would be pretty hard to eat a meal with no carbs or no fat at all.....
          Zactly, in fact a little bit of fat helps to slow the digestion making it somewhat easier for the body to actually assimilate the nutrients. Just have to be aware of the amoutns and not go overboard with either one.
          -KidRok-
          "...because I won't accept that I can't."


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          • #6
            Well, I don't usually go with either carbs or fat BUT I do know a very respected bro that does this for his offseason guys when he feels it is needed.

            I have had a few clients that I have had to do this for and when the combinations didn't work as well as they should have, it did work well when carbs and fats were split.

            It does works sometimes but in my opinion (and my opinion only), it isn't needed very often and quite frankly, there are so many benefits to having all three macros in each meal that I don't use it unless it is absolutely necessary.

            The reasoning is exactly as someone touched on a few posts back. The body has a harder time switching back and forth between fuel sources. The theory is that if you are using dietary fat as an energy source instead of carbs, the metabolic processes are very similar to burning bodyfat and the body doesn't have to "change gears" to burn bodyfat efficiently. If you are burning carbs as a fuel source, it is an entirely different process and this causes the body to jump back and forth between two fuel sources - carbs and bodyfat. There is also the insulin issue. When insulin is high, it is very difficult or much more difficult to burn bodyfat as a fuel source.

            Skip


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            • #7
              correct me if Im wrong ( I know someone will) but doesnt fat generally lower the overall GI of a carb? ie ice cream
              SweatMachine
              (pronounced: Swet-Mow-Sheen)

              That which we manifest lies before us.

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              • #8
                not to question anybody ideas or anything but if carbs and fat spike slin levels while dieting is that a bad thing?

                It dosent really matter to me one way or another because I take in both on just about every meal and it works fine for me

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                • #9
                  again, I thought fat with carbs lowered the insuline spike, someone have any input?
                  SweatMachine
                  (pronounced: Swet-Mow-Sheen)

                  That which we manifest lies before us.

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                  • #10
                    see I thought they raised it.

                    can somebody help use out here. I am trying to think on 150g opf carbs. LOL

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                    • #11
                      I feel ya Bro.....
                      SweatMachine
                      (pronounced: Swet-Mow-Sheen)

                      That which we manifest lies before us.

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                      • #12
                        Fat has no affect, directly, on raising insulin levels. Protein does but to a much smaller degree than carbs. For carbs, it depends on the carb as some don't raise levels much and others will raise it through the roof.

                        Protein added to a carb meal will lower that carb's GI but not a huge drop.

                        Fat will lower a carb's GI much more than protein.

                        Fiber will lower a carb's GI, also.

                        Now, please don't get into the IS or Insulin Score of foods such as proteins because it gets terribly confusing to explain and I am simply not that articulate. If you are going to go that route, Randy better drop his ass in here and take over real quick like.

                        Skip
                        ADD: sweat, you are correct but the point is - why not have a low GI carb and then lower it even more with added fat, instead of a high GI carb and then lowering it with fat. Get me? Basically, the lower the better.
                        Also, there is a connection with over weight people or people that have higher bodyfat levels and how sensitive they are to insulin (or high GI carbs). You will find that as you lean down, you will not be as sensitive to the high GI carbs. If someone is terribly overweight, high GI is not the way to go.


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                        • #13
                          Skip..you confirmed what I believed.
                          I personally use only low GI carbs
                          oatmeal and Brown rice mainly
                          SweatMachine
                          (pronounced: Swet-Mow-Sheen)

                          That which we manifest lies before us.

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                          • #14
                            Couple thoughts...

                            Skip's on it.

                            SWEAT and PUMPED. Adding fat to a carb meal will slow absorption, lower GI and reduce insulin release. Adding protein to a carb meal will lower GI, but can actually enhance insulin release, b/c the beta cells of the pancreas (release insulin) respond to both glucose and amino acids.

                            The theory is of not mixing carbs and fat would be this.

                            NOTE: One piece of this idea is that insulin causes somethign called futile cycling - basically metabolic processes that simply use up ATP (energy) in a "futile" manner. Nothing comes of the ATP use: no work done, no anabolic process completed. (Similar to the effect that DNP has, although a different mechanism.) This process comes into play when there is a strong stimulus from the insulin - either d/t high sensitivity and/or lots of insulin released after a meal.

                            So, take the scenario where you mix carbs and fat w/ each meal. (Ignore protein for a while.) Carbs cause insulin release (even if the fat mixed in reduces GI). The insulin would the promote fat storage and inhibit fat breakdown. If each meal were like this, you have a poor hormonal environment for fat lipolysis and fat loss. Also, you would have relatively low (compared to the other scenario below) insulin senstitivity b/c there would be insulin released with every meal. (This means theoretically less energy lost (lower metabolic rate) b/c there woudl be less futile cycling.)

                            Consider the scenario where eat a carb (again ignore protein) only meal, followed by a fat only meal, etc. The carb meal would come at a period of higher insulin sensitivity: less likelihood for fat storage (less insulin released), more likelihood for glycogen storage (better sensitivity) and greater likelihood for futile cycling (sort of insurance if a meal were too big). The fat meal thereafter would produce little insulin response, meaning less likelihood of fat storage, and keep metabolism running b/c there is food coming in. Additionally (and this hasn't been tested DIRECTLY that I know of, although it makes sense given the data I've read), the fat only meal would tend to ensure that the cellular machinery for fat oxidation stays patent.

                            So, there's the idea. Its all a drop in the bucket (as Skip says) if the diet's not right in terms of kcal, etc. There's also a behavioural component, too: giving someone specific directions (w/ little options to change the diet or screw it up) like in a dietary strategy like this can ensure compliance and could even reduce stress (and therefore cortisol release)...

                            -Randy
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                            • #15
                              YEA WHAT THEY SAID. L.OL

                              thanks guys

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