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  • Relationship between size and strength

    These 2 articles come from EliteFTS and discuss the relationship between size and strength...

    Part 1
    http://articles.elitefts.com/trainin...rength-part-1/

    Part 2
    http://articles.elitefts.com/trainin...rength-part-2/

    The article talks a lot about the belief that a person has a given strength limit before they must increase lean muscle mass to facilitate increasing further strength gains.

    It also suggests periods of strength focused training mixed with hypertrophy based training to get the best of both worlds. Essentially believing that a bigger muscle can be trained to get stronger and that a stronger muscle can be more easily made bigger.

    I believe that with the exception of the genetic elite this is true and that the idea of mixing training focuses is an interesting idea. I also believe this is why I have favored progressive overload based programs without realizing it. For the most part won't your quads be bigger if you go from a 315x10 squat to a 455x12 squat? And if you go from a 365x1 deadlift to a 505x2 deadlift wouldn't you then be able to (generally speaking) be able to handle heavier weights in the 8-12 rep range thus potentiating greater muscle growth?

    What are your thoughts?
    Journal http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=51093

  • #2
    Originally posted by Adam2433 View Post
    These 2 articles come from EliteFTS and discuss the relationship between size and strength...

    Part 1
    http://articles.elitefts.com/trainin...rength-part-1/

    Part 2
    http://articles.elitefts.com/trainin...rength-part-2/

    The article talks a lot about the belief that a person has a given strength limit before they must increase lean muscle mass to facilitate increasing further strength gains.

    It also suggests periods of strength focused training mixed with hypertrophy based training to get the best of both worlds. Essentially believing that a bigger muscle can be trained to get stronger and that a stronger muscle can be more easily made bigger.

    I believe that with the exception of the genetic elite this is true and that the idea of mixing training focuses is an interesting idea. I also believe this is why I have favored progressive overload based programs without realizing it. For the most part won't your quads be bigger if you go from a 315x10 squat to a 455x12 squat? And if you go from a 365x1 deadlift to a 505x2 deadlift wouldn't you then be able to (generally speaking) be able to handle heavier weights in the 8-12 rep range thus potentiating greater muscle growth?

    What are your thoughts?
    I definitely agree. I remember Dante also saying something about being sure to have nutrition on point to not miss that growth opportunity, kinda what I did in reverse trying to stay in a weight class while continuing to get stronger, I may have lost that opportunity for more.size going from 315 to 500+ for reps on squat. Sure I gained size but could I have gained more? Probably, there is also something to be said for size gained from heavy lifting as opposed to shear volume. We'll compare in 3 weeks

    Comment


    • #3
      I believe the fastest way to gain size is to gain strength with proper nutrition and muscular stimulus. The way powerlifters execute their lifts is often not optimal for muscular growth, it is just optimal for lifting more weight.

      Your not going to get larger increasing a 1RM on a powerlifter who doesn't know how to activate their legs properly or eat right.

      If you get someone that knows how to fire their muscles properly and increase their widow-maker 200 pounds over two years you bet your ass those legs will grow like weeds.

      I think programs like DC training can give you the best of both worlds with a focus on strength gain/progressive overload while incorporating proper nutrition giving you muscular hypertrophy. This only happens optimally when the lifter can execute the right intensity/muscular activation throughout their progressive overload.

      If you gain all that strength without eating right I believe that the opportunity to grow is largely diminished as well. If you ate correctly throughout that period there would be muscular gains as well. (Pretty much what Robb said Dante said while I was typing this, if that makes any sense lol.)

      That's just the way I see it after all these years
      Great topic btw /thanks button
      liftweights
      Lightweight Member
      Last edited by liftweights; 10-27-2013, 01:35 PM.
      :preach:

      Comment


      • #4
        Lift-

        Agree w/for the most part but i think you are selling powerlifters short. For every fat blob powerlifter there are 3 jacked as hell guys in decent shape who if they dieted/trained like a BB for 16-20 weeks would clean house @ a local show.....

        I also think at least for beginners and intermediates mind muscle is over-rated I'd rather a trainee concentrate on technically sound execution and progressive overload. To many guys do 1-2 shows and switch to "stretching and squeezing the muscle" vs taking 315x5 to 405x5.....
        '17 USAPL Chicago Raw
        17 AAU Super Total
        '16-AAU Hi
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        '14-USPA Metro
        '14-WABDL Sonny's
        '14-USPA State
        '14-HI Strongman
        '13-USPA
        '13-WABDL Sonny's
        '13-USPA State
        '13-AAU HI
        '11-USPA Metro
        '10-NPC Stingrey
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        Comment


        • #5
          Tru- I guess a lot of it comes back to genetics. For every one of those powerlifters that could diet down and win a show, there are at least as many if not more of their peers that still have pretty terrible musculature, despite being ridiculously strong.
          :preach:

          Comment


          • #6
            Not sure what meets you've been at but check out a raw meet and all the classes under 242 not alot of "terrible" physiques.

            No need to start a debate. ..different ways to skin a cat.
            '17 USAPL Chicago Raw
            17 AAU Super Total
            '16-AAU Hi
            '15-USPA Metro
            '15-USPA State
            '15-AAU HI
            '14-AAU HI
            '14-USPA Metro
            '14-WABDL Sonny's
            '14-USPA State
            '14-HI Strongman
            '13-USPA
            '13-WABDL Sonny's
            '13-USPA State
            '13-AAU HI
            '11-USPA Metro
            '10-NPC Stingrey
            '09-NPC Islands
            '09-NPC Stingrey
            '09-ABA Islands
            '02-ABA Islands
            '02-ABA IronWorks
            '01-NPC Paradise Cup
            '01-ABA Olympia
            '01-ABA Islands
            '00-NPC Nat.Tri-State
            '00-INBF Musclefest
            '98-NGA Ill
            '98-INBF Ohio

            Comment


            • #7
              I like the point that even if getting a lot stronger using powerlifting based training doesn't make you muscularly larger once you apply that new strength to bodybuilding based training you will elicit greater gains from utilizing that new strength.

              So...

              Start out doing your triple drop set smith incline bench with 275>225>185 followed by flyes with 35's.

              Focus on getting stronger so your flat bench max goes from 315>405.

              Come back to focusing on getting larger and now you can triple drop 335>295>245 followed by flyes with 50's.

              Obviously there is a lot more that goes into it and the gains don't translate so universally.
              Journal http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=51093

              Comment


              • #8
                Konstantinovs primarily competes in the 275 class which he pulled 939lbs in. If he puts on lean size and gets up to 315 at similar condition and goes back to working on setting a new deadlift record does he have a greater chance at pulling over 1000lbs than if he stays at his current size?
                Journal http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=51093

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Adam2433 View Post

                  person has a given strength limit before they must increase lean muscle mass to facilitate increasing further strength gains.

                  periods of strength focused training mixed with hypertrophy based training to get the best of both worlds. Essentially believing that a bigger muscle can be trained to get stronger and that a stronger muscle can be more easily made bigger.
                  i am quite agree with these couple of lines.. in my point of view strength should be first priority.. its quite easy to build bigger your strong muscles

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm actually interested in this because I would like to make the transition from powerlifting to bodybuilding at some point myself.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Pumakrieg View Post
                      I'm actually interested in this because I would like to make the transition from powerlifting to bodybuilding at some point myself.
                      I'm somewhat embarking upon this same journey right now. The largest issue that I've had to overcome is a lack of work capacity, and tendon fatigue. Training used to entail lifting a shit ton for 8 or 10 sets of doubles on whatever movement I'm working for the day, some weak spot accessory movements, and go home. I would end up with muscular fatigue (we actually measured fatigue by collecting the data of every lift throughout a training session on a GymAware), but nowhere near the fatigue levels I experience now doing more classic "bodybuilding" rep ranges.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Adam2433 View Post
                        These 2 articles come from EliteFTS and discuss the relationship between size and strength...

                        Part 1
                        http://articles.elitefts.com/trainin...rength-part-1/

                        Part 2
                        http://articles.elitefts.com/trainin...rength-part-2/

                        The article talks a lot about the belief that a person has a given strength limit before they must increase lean muscle mass to facilitate increasing further strength gains.

                        It also suggests periods of strength focused training mixed with hypertrophy based training to get the best of both worlds. Essentially believing that a bigger muscle can be trained to get stronger and that a stronger muscle can be more easily made bigger.

                        I believe that with the exception of the genetic elite this is true and that the idea of mixing training focuses is an interesting idea. I also believe this is why I have favored progressive overload based programs without realizing it. For the most part won't your quads be bigger if you go from a 315x10 squat to a 455x12 squat? And if you go from a 365x1 deadlift to a 505x2 deadlift wouldn't you then be able to (generally speaking) be able to handle heavier weights in the 8-12 rep range thus potentiating greater muscle growth?

                        What are your thoughts?

                        Aw man, the links are now outdated. Also, bump from the dead because of all of the hubbub on Facebook on this very topic over the last few days.

                        Why not spend a cycle or two focusing on hypertrophy and then switch to focusing on strength?
                        #docswholift
                        PGY-1 FM
                        "No idea is above scrutiny and no people are beneath dignity." -Maajid Nawaz

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by nexa View Post
                          Aw man, the links are now outdated. Also, bump from the dead because of all of the hubbub on Facebook on this very topic over the last few days.

                          Why not spend a cycle or two focusing on hypertrophy and then switch to focusing on strength?
                          K-POW

                          http://www.elitefts.com/education/mo...rength-part-1/

                          http://www.elitefts.com/education/tr...rength-part-2/
                          Ph.D., Theoretical Physics '16
                          kind of a douche

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Awesome thanks Nathan
                            #docswholift
                            PGY-1 FM
                            "No idea is above scrutiny and no people are beneath dignity." -Maajid Nawaz

                            Comment

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