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  • Beyond 5/3/1 review

    I just read (well, half read/half skimmed) Wendler's new book, "Beyond 5/3/1". Unfortunately, I was not impressed. There is certainly plenty of new information. In fact is confusing with the dozens of templates, programs, splits and types of sets.

    5/3/1 worked so well because it was a very simple, almost minimalist program that any new or dumb lifter could follow. Jim almost made strict adherence to the program and minimalist approach a cult. At times I thought he tried too hard to say stick to his, "do the main lift and push the prowler" is all you need to do mantra as if it were a schtick. Now, in "Beyond 5/3/1" he turns 180 degrees and offers programs and ideas that I think even experienced lifters would need to constantly pull out there lap top or printed spreadsheet to check what they needed to do. He went from recommending 3 days per week with the main lifts rotating with set deloads to some dozen plus possible splits that include training 7 days per week!

    5/3/1 sets plus Joker Sets at 5 or 10% increases then First Set Last for 5 sets but is it for 5 reps per set or 10? Am I supposed to hit a rep PR today or is it multiple Training Max singles?

    Buy the book and judge for yourself but I was quite disappointed.
    Journal http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=51093

  • #2
    Originally posted by Adam2433 View Post
    I just read (well, half read/half skimmed) Wendler's new book, "Beyond 5/3/1". Unfortunately, I was not impressed. There is certainly plenty of new information. In fact is confusing with the dozens of templates, programs, splits and types of sets.

    5/3/1 worked so well because it was a very simple, almost minimalist program that any new or dumb lifter could follow. Jim almost made strict adherence to the program and minimalist approach a cult. At times I thought he tried too hard to say stick to his, "do the main lift and push the prowler" is all you need to do mantra as if it were a schtick. Now, in "Beyond 5/3/1" he turns 180 degrees and offers programs and ideas that I think even experienced lifters would need to constantly pull out there lap top or printed spreadsheet to check what they needed to do. He went from recommending 3 days per week with the main lifts rotating with set deloads to some dozen plus possible splits that include training 7 days per week!

    5/3/1 sets plus Joker Sets at 5 or 10% increases then First Set Last for 5 sets but is it for 5 reps per set or 10? Am I supposed to hit a rep PR today or is it multiple Training Max singles?

    Buy the book and judge for yourself but I was quite disappointed.
    Yeah, I found maybe 15% of it worth while but reminded me of some things I needed to get back to. Some of it was circle talk. Joker sets? Why couldn't he have said do singles after the main lifts and make small jumps? Like I said though I like the 13 week BBB program, nothing new there

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    • #3
      Originally posted by RobbHensel View Post
      Yeah, I found maybe 15% of it worth while but reminded me of some things I needed to get back to. Some of it was circle talk. Joker sets? Why couldn't he have said do singles after the main lifts and make small jumps?
      From the book;

      "Simply telling people to “work up” works well for about 10% of the population. I wanted something concrete that I could give to people and say, “This is your plan of attack.”
      You're perfect, yes it's true. But without me...you're only you.

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      • #4
        Proof that you can't please everyone.

        The complaints I heard about OG 5/3/1 were "not enough intensity", "not enough volume", "no heavy singles" and "who need a w4 deload". Seriously, those are ALL of the complaints I heard.

        So he refines the method, directly addresses the issues that have been called out as lacking in the programming. I see it as advancement of the original ideas, while leaving nothing to chance for programming. Hell at one point he directs you to put the EXACT weight on the bar that the program dictates, not to round up or down.

        Seems to me like he's trying to instill the attention to detail and exactness that he holds himself to, into trainees.

        That said, I simply DO NOT fucking understand joker sets. If my actual max is 500, I set an 85% training max (425), how the hell am I supposed to hit 125% of that (531)? My max is 500...so I'm supposed to work up to 31# over that? Feel free to slap some sense into me because it's a boggle.

        I like it, if for no other reason than I have an almost sycophantic belief in Wendler's methods. My "confirmation bias" (nod to Scott) casts his work in a positive light for me. I am to 5/3/1 what many posters here are to DC.
        You're perfect, yes it's true. But without me...you're only you.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by RageBlanket View Post
          From the book;

          "Simply telling people to “work up” works well for about 10% of the population. I wanted something concrete that I could give to people and say, “This is your plan of attack.”
          Lol you got me

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          • #6
            Originally posted by RageBlanket View Post

            That said, I simply DO NOT fucking understand joker sets. If my actual max is 500, I set an 85% training max (425), how the hell am I supposed to hit 125% of that (531)? My max is 500...so I'm supposed to work up to 31# over that? Feel free to slap some sense into me because it's a boggle.
            It's 5-10% over your last set of the day not TM

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            • #7
              Originally posted by RageBlanket View Post
              Proof that you can't please everyone.

              The complaints I heard about OG 5/3/1 were "not enough intensity", "not enough volume", "no heavy singles" and "who need a w4 deload". Seriously, those are ALL of the complaints I heard.

              So he refines the method, directly addresses the issues that have been called out as lacking in the programming. I see it as advancement of the original ideas, while leaving nothing to chance for programming. Hell at one point he directs you to put the EXACT weight on the bar that the program dictates, not to round up or down.

              Seems to me like he's trying to instill the attention to detail and exactness that he holds himself to, into trainees.

              That said, I simply DO NOT fucking understand joker sets. If my actual max is 500, I set an 85% training max (425), how the hell am I supposed to hit 125% of that (531)? My max is 500...so I'm supposed to work up to 31# over that? Feel free to slap some sense into me because it's a boggle.

              I like it, if for no other reason than I have an almost sycophantic belief in Wendler's methods. My "confirmation bias" (nod to Scott) casts his work in a positive light for me. I am to 5/3/1 what many posters here are to DC.
              I love the original 5/3/1 and had great success with it. I don't consider myself some super advanced lifter but I could take the principles and run with figuring out what works for me.

              This stuff I couldn't do without a spreadsheet to look at every set. That gets away from the original premise of the program IMO.

              And if he thought he got a lot of accessory work questions before, holy hell is he in for it now haha.
              Journal http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=51093

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              • #8
                Beyond 5/3/1 review

                Originally posted by RobbHensel View Post
                It's 5-10% over your last set of the day not TM
                From the book;

                For example, let’s say that you have a 400 pound training max for the bench press, your workout would look like this (TM = 400):
                Base Workout
                • Bar x 10 reps
                • 120x5reps
                • 160x5reps
                • 200x3reps
                • 240x3reps
                • 280x1rep
                • 320x1rep
                • 360x1rep
                • 400x6reps
                Joker Sets
                • 420x1rep
                • 440x1rep
                • 460x1rep


                If my training MAX is 400, how da fuck ima bench 400x6?

                See my confusion??

                Edit; p33 has the percentage table I'm referring to with the 125%.
                Last edited by RageBlanket; 06-29-2013, 09:00 AM.
                You're perfect, yes it's true. But without me...you're only you.

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                • #9
                  I'm emailing. This shit is bugging me...I'm OCD that way.
                  You're perfect, yes it's true. But without me...you're only you.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RageBlanket View Post
                    I'm emailing. This shit is bugging me...I'm OCD that way.
                    http://i.imgur.com/sxnKItM.gif
                    Ph.D., Theoretical Physics '16
                    kind of a douche

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                    • #11
                      I got it today....skimmed through it. Man, a lot of different ideas. I liked that though. But it does seem like it isn't a "5/3/1" guide as much as a "5/3/1 + ____" guide. I plan on following the pyramid method he talked about. I still think it will benefit my training though. I did think the $25 tag was a little high, but I guess it wasn't that high, since I bought it

                      Is he no longer with Elite Fts?
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                      • #12
                        I'll have to pick this up. $25 isn't at all that much. It's a niche market he's selling too so he needs to make some comeback on his effort. When you consider the audio book to 50 shades of grey is 30$ and all your getting out of that is some shag and the neighbour screaming the house down.I'd say it was a steal.

                        Adam, are you still training with the original 5/3/1 template? Can you see yourself adding in anything in the book?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by breck View Post
                          I got it today....skimmed through it. Man, a lot of different ideas. I liked that though. But it does seem like it isn't a "5/3/1" guide as much as a "5/3/1 + ____" guide. I plan on following the pyramid method he talked about. I still think it will benefit my training though. I did think the $25 tag was a little high, but I guess it wasn't that high, since I bought it

                          Is he no longer with Elite Fts?
                          No. Dave Tate did a review of the new ebook yesterday I believe, and he mentioned that while they (EliteFTS & Wendler) still have a relationship, he left to form his own company.

                          OG 5/3/1 sold over 30,000 copies through EliteFTS alone. O_o
                          You're perfect, yes it's true. But without me...you're only you.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sammich View Post
                            I'm so confused.
                            You're perfect, yes it's true. But without me...you're only you.

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                            • #15
                              If my training MAX is 400, how da fuck ima bench 400x6?

                              See my confusion??
                              I do not have the book yet, but I will. Is there any mention of a SlingShot for these sets?
                              "You need never feel broken again"

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