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  • Sumo vs Conventional deadlift

    Background / Attempt at Sumo Deads:

    So anyone here who is not familiar with my deadlift quest: I want to deadlift 600 raw at 185. I'm 5'10, life time natural, 23 years old. No reason why I picked 600 or 185, that is just what I want to do, plain and simple.

    Last time I tested it I hit 575 and could of easily been less than 185lbs. I was planning on hitting 600 this year. However, I am bored as shit of conventional dead lifts. Straight up sick of them. They are no longer fun and I hate training them. I was browsing elitefts and seen Al Caslow's log where he sumo deadlifts:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toIw-...layer_embedded

    I wanted to try sumo deadlifts. I have never done them in my life and they looked fun. I didn't even read into the form I just went to do them. I put each foot about 1 inch from the plates and barely pulled 275 lol. I went woa wtf my glutes and hamstrings must suck. I then thought about it more and realized my feet might of been too wide so I moved them in a little bit. I barely pulled 315 for a double, but still better than 275 for a single haha. I thought "wow that still feels fucked no clue what I'm doing wrong". So I finished my workout and came home.

    I read / watched these.

    http://intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=10453

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVgfNBbMPEA

    Here are my assumptions:

    1) my feet were way too wide even after bringing them in a little.
    2) I have never done sumo pulls before and didn't have the movement pattern.

    I am going to try them again next week with my feet way closer and seen what happens.

    edit:
    just watched this, why the fuck are his feet so wide?mine were like that when I could barely do 275. how tall is that cock sucker lol. am I just a pussy at sumo deadlifts?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp8Sx...ture=endscreen

    Questions:

    1) People talk about different strengths favoring different styles. What strengths favor a conventional lift and what favors a sumo?

    2) does improving your conventional help your sumo and vice-versa? If so, what does sumo improve in conventional, and what does conventional improve with sumo?

    3) I have been conventional dead lifting for 3 or 4 years. Will I always be better at conventional?

    4) is it possible that I might actually lift more sumo if I train at it for a few months?

    5) do raw lifters set world records as sumo or do mostly suited lifters use sumo?

    6) what style has the potential to lift more weight?

    7) why do worlds strongest men use conventional deadlifts and not sumo?
    Last edited by syssstem; 01-26-2012, 05:09 PM.

  • #2
    Good topic. I'm not experienced enough in sumo deads to give any advice, so I am interested in what some vets say. I have always heard more experience lifters, who prefer sumos, say that they do so due to the shorter distance the weight must move. I always stick to narrower stance myself.

    Comment


    • #3
      Well since world record deadlifts are pulled using the conventional method I would say that overall conventional deads have more potential.
      Could you pull more sumo if you work on it ? Maybe, but I doubt it. Your deadlift doesn't exactly suck, far from it. So if you got this far pulling conventional I would bet that you are better suited for it than sumo.
      How long have you been doing deadlifts in your training cycle without taking a break from them?
      You can only pound a lift for so long until it stalls out and you need a break from that particular movement pattern.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Yev33 View Post
        Well since world record deadlifts are pulled using the conventional method I would say that overall conventional deads have more potential.
        Could you pull more sumo if you work on it ? Maybe, but I doubt it. Your deadlift doesn't exactly suck, far from it. So if you got this far pulling conventional I would bet that you are better suited for it than sumo.
        How long have you been doing deadlifts in your training cycle without taking a break from them?
        You can only pound a lift for so long until it stalls out and you need a break from that particular movement pattern.

        I used to deadlift once a week. Now I do deadlifts for maybe 4 weeks out of every 6 months. the rest of the time I spend progressing different squat variations. no clue if this is ideal. I am more interested on what people think of conventional vs sumo. Not really looking for advice about my programming.

        thx for chiming in! i am also feeling conventional has more potential for some reason. Why doesn't al coslow pull conventional?

        Comment


        • #5
          Youve been 185 for quite a while right? You may have simply hit your max or close to your max that you will achieve at your current LBM level. I think you just need to gain weight and stop thinking about it. If you are so deadset on hitting it at 185, just gain some weight (muscle) and cut back down to 185 and do it.

          I know its not related to sumo DLing, but you have quite a lot of posts on this deadlift goal of yours. Pulling sumo will only make sense if it directly assesses a weakness you KNOW you have in your conventional pulls, otherwise it will be pointless.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SkinnyMike42 View Post
            Youve been 185 for quite a while right? You may have simply hit your max or close to your max that you will achieve at your current LBM level. I think you just need to gain weight and stop thinking about it. If you are so deadset on hitting it at 185, just gain some weight (muscle) and cut back down to 185 and do it.

            I know its not related to sumo DLing, but you have quite a lot of posts on this deadlift goal of yours. Pulling sumo will only make sense if it directly assesses a weakness you KNOW you have in your conventional pulls, otherwise it will be pointless.
            Iv went up to 200 twice in the past year and back down to 185. Seen minor progress (520-550, then 550-575). This time instead of gaining 15 in 3 months and losing 15 in 3 months, I am going to spend 6 months gaining 15, and see how my strength is by then.

            Lets not focus on my specific quest, I was just saying that so people wouldn't ask 100 back ground questions. Rather, lets focus on the sumo vs conventional deadlift.
            Last edited by syssstem; 01-26-2012, 06:50 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by syssstem View Post

              edit:
              just watched this, why the fuck are his feet so wide?mine were like that when I could barely do 275. how tall is that cock sucker lol. am I just a pussy at sumo deadlifts?

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp8Sx...ture=endscreen

              Questions:

              1) People talk about different strengths favoring different styles. What strengths favor a conventional lift and what favors a sumo?

              2) does improving your conventional help your sumo and vice-versa? If so, what does sumo improve in conventional, and what does conventional improve with sumo?

              3) I have been conventional dead lifting for 3 or 4 years. Will I always be better at conventional?

              4) is it possible that I might actually lift more sumo if I train at it for a few months?

              5) do raw lifters set world records as sumo or do mostly suited lifters use sumo?

              6) what style has the potential to lift more weight?

              7) why do worlds strongest men use conventional deadlifts and not sumo?
              My assumption is that Dave is putting his feet so wide as that is the set up most equipped lifters (who make up a large percentage of the sumo pulling population) use in order to take best advantage of the equipment.

              1) The biggest factor in which suits you best is the personal leverages with your own body structure. If your leverages suck conventional then thats just always gonna be the case. Muscle wise if you have a weak link you may be able to bring it up with training. Generally, quads and low back are important for conventional pulling and hips, hams, gluts for sumo.

              2) I would think this is very individualistic. However, sumo is the more technical lift of the two and requires more practice to get the form correct. Otherwise the best carryover I could see would be doing conventional pulls if you have a weak lower back and pull sumo.

              3) Maybe. Maybe not. Depends on those leverages. Maybe all these years you ground your conventional pull up even though you are better suited to sumo and just need practice with it. Or maybe not and you just aren't made to be a sumo puller. Only one way to find out for sure...

              4) Sure.

              5) More suited lifters use sumo as it allows you to get more out of the equipment as well as protects your hips. Pull heavy or do any speed work sumo for a while and let me know how those hips feel!

              6) Again, depends on you. The biggest pullers of all time (Bolton, Benni, Vlad, etc) pull conventional. But the best POUND FOR POUND pullers are more often than not sumo.

              7) Same as #6. When you are a big guy you get the benefit of all that weight with your leverages. Plus, I honestly don't think most of them are flexible enough to get into a good sumo position.

              Hope that helps! Give it a shot for 6 months. Post up some videos for critique, especially in Exmgq's thread. He is a very accomplished puller using both styles.
              Journal http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=51093

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Yev33 View Post
                Well since world record deadlifts are pulled using the conventional method I would say that overall conventional deads have more potential.
                This is a blanket statement that is just not true.
                Journal http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=51093

                Comment


                • #9
                  syss-

                  you know im not a PL'er but the first few years i trained I ONLY pulled sumo. Really only because becasue I jsut could not get conventional pulling form down at all....pretty sad.

                  However once i started competing in BB i switched to conventional because as a BB i fel tit had more application and helped bring up the the things i was looking to improve (midback thickness/traps) i eventually became a much better puller conventional than sumo.

                  Sumo seems to rely alot more on lower body and posterior chain and conventional seems to use more quads/back. I go to alot of PL meets and i see waaaay more guys pulling sumo. at least for me sumo can beat up your hips pretty bad. If your going to pull sumo with a narrow stance you might as well pull conventional.

                  BTW sumo rack pulls absolutely destroy traps etc
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                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by syssstem View Post
                    Background / Attempt at Sumo Deads:

                    So anyone here who is not familiar with my deadlift quest: I want to deadlift 600 raw at 185. I'm 5'10, life time natural, 23 years old. No reason why I picked 600 or 185, that is just what I want to do, plain and simple.

                    Last time I tested it I hit 575 and could of easily been less than 185lbs. I was planning on hitting 600 this year. However, I am bored as shit of conventional dead lifts. Straight up sick of them. They are no longer fun and I hate training them. I was browsing elitefts and seen Al Caslow's log where he sumo deadlifts:

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toIw-...layer_embedded

                    I wanted to try sumo deadlifts. I have never done them in my life and they looked fun. I didn't even read into the form I just went to do them. I put each foot about 1 inch from the plates and barely pulled 275 lol. I went woa wtf my glutes and hamstrings must suck. I then thought about it more and realized my feet might of been too wide so I moved them in a little bit. I barely pulled 315 for a double, but still better than 275 for a single haha. I thought "wow that still feels fucked no clue what I'm doing wrong". So I finished my workout and came home.

                    I read / watched these.

                    http://intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=10453

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVgfNBbMPEA

                    Here are my assumptions:

                    1) my feet were way too wide even after bringing them in a little.
                    2) I have never done sumo pulls before and didn't have the movement pattern.

                    I am going to try them again next week with my feet way closer and seen what happens.

                    edit:
                    just watched this, why the fuck are his feet so wide?mine were like that when I could barely do 275. how tall is that cock sucker lol. am I just a pussy at sumo deadlifts?

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp8Sx...ture=endscreen

                    Questions:

                    1) People talk about different strengths favoring different styles. What strengths favor a conventional lift and what favors a sumo?

                    Generally, longer arms or taller people like conventional, and shorter armed/framed people pull sumo. Better leverage for conventional the longer your arms are I hear, at least.

                    2) does improving your conventional help your sumo and vice-versa? If so, what does sumo improve in conventional, and what does conventional improve with sumo?

                    3) I have been conventional dead lifting for 3 or 4 years. Will I always be better at conventional?

                    Probably. If it seems natural to you then, ya, that's the shake of it. You're body type probably calls for conv also.

                    4) is it possible that I might actually lift more sumo if I train at it for a few months?

                    Doubtful, but not out of the realm of possibility.


                    5) do raw lifters set world records as sumo or do mostly suited lifters use sumo?


                    6) what style has the potential to lift more weight?

                    7) why do worlds strongest men use conventional deadlifts and not sumo?

                    Probably because they are usually very gigantic men, and have leverages that favor that kind of pull.
                    I answered in red the questions I thought I could chime in on. But I have NEVER pulled sumo, other than just messing around...so, if Adam or one of the other PL'ers can give you insight, it's far more beneficial to you.

                    I know Sammich pulls sumo...

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                    Comment


                    • #11
                      A few years back I was considering going into powerlifting and at the time considered myself to be a decent deadlifter for my weight. I was pulling using conventional style for a while when a good powerlifter made the suggestion to me that I give sumo a try because of my body structure. So I'll give you my feedback on the questions that I might have a little insight on.

                      Originally posted by syssstem View Post

                      Questions:

                      1) People talk about different strengths favoring different styles. What strengths favor a conventional lift and what favors a sumo?

                      Lock hit on this one, and being a short guy, I can vouch for his statement. After switching to sumo i was able to pull more weight because I had better leverage for my size.

                      2) does improving your conventional help your sumo and vice-versa? If so, what does sumo improve in conventional, and what does conventional improve with sumo?

                      I tend to feel sumo more in my glutes than conventional so if your glutes are the weak link in your conventional pull, they will help bring them up. Again, this is just off of my experience and the form that I use back then.

                      3) I have been conventional dead lifting for 3 or 4 years. Will I always be better at conventional?

                      4) is it possible that I might actually lift more sumo if I train at it for a few months?

                      You'd have to address all of your strengths and weaknesses and how they pertain to each style and determine which one will allow you to pull from the greatest biomechanical position for you.

                      5) do raw lifters set world records as sumo or do mostly suited lifters use sumo?

                      6) what style has the potential to lift more weight?

                      I believe this is based on one's individual structure and development in the posterior chain as well as back.

                      7) why do worlds strongest men use conventional deadlifts and not sumo?

                      Hopefully this gives you a little insight and the perspective from someone short who is better at sumo.
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                      • #12
                        The only reason I pull sumo now is to protect my lower back from further injury, as I have a degenerated disc as a result of putting stress on my spine while my lower back was rounded. Pulling sumo allows me to keep my back straighter and shift the stress off the lower back and onto the hips.
                        Ph.D., Theoretical Physics '16
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                        Comment


                        • #13
                          When compare these two methods: sumo and conventional deadlifting, we cannot get the answer which is right at all - we are just able to get the right answer for one or another lifter according to his body. The body that is unique and caused by genetics.

                          Yes. World records are made with conventional style. But it only shows that lifters who have the body which is proper (I repeat it: caused by genetics) for conventional style get more advantages.
                          All of these three terms "good", "better", "the best" are far from God. He stands above all them.

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