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  • Bodybuilding Drugs (do you need them?)

    I will start this out by saying that I am sickened by the posts I see on many boards by 16-18 year old kids that have been training for sometimes only MONTHS that are asking about how to best go about using pro-hormones or steroids. Let’s get something strait first. Unless you are at LEAST 21 you have no right even considering doing them. WHY? Well, if you need to ask that, you haven’t done your homework and you should be disqualified already.

    Now that we are talking about 21+ year olds, lets make a few more distinctions.

    1. How long have you been training?
    1.1 How long have you been training CORRECTLY (for YOUR body) and dieting correctly.

    Even if you have been training for 10 years and have been doing a bunch of stupid “pro” style training and eating like a little old lady, you haven’t really been training yet. I know, because I did the same thing for over 10 years and made about zero progress. I knew a bunch about bodybuilding, except how to train myself at a volume and frequency level I could recover from, and how to feed myself properly. But I could tell you EVERYTHING about all the “pro’s” and how they did it—USELESS!!!!

    Now what about if you have been training for 2-5 years and have actually made great progress? What constitutes great progress? I’ll go out on a limb here and give you some generic lift numbers that translate pretty good in the real world for average (if there is such a thing) trainees.

    A bench of at LEAST 250-300 lbs for at least a few reps
    Dipping with at LEAST 75+ strapped to your waist for 6-8 reps
    Rows and/or pull-downs with at LEAST 200 for 6-8 reps
    Military or dumbbell shoulder press with at LEAST 150-175 for 6-8 reps
    Squatting/deadlifting at LEAST 350 for 6-8 reps

    And yes, some people may be dismally low at 1 or 2 of the lifts due to bad leverages, abnormally low fast twitch fiber composition, etc. but if you can’t hit at least 3 out of 5 of those numbers, or you are a very short/small statured trainee, you need to get your training and diet in order and pay some more dues. If these numbers seem light years away, or totally out of your reach you probably don’t have the big factors of training and diet even remotely dialed. Simple as that! MOST trainees can and will hit, or come very close to these numbers while training clean. But…..most are miles away…

    So……..they decide to get involved with gear way before it’s time. Then before they are willing to even pay their dues about learning about proper gear/ph use, post cycle therapy, and all the ins and outs, they ask a few questions on the forums that are often responded to by another young inexperienced trainee and have their way with it.

    AFTER I could squat and deadlift 400 for 10 reps and bench 300 for reps I decided I wanted to try gear. I then spent a year and a half studying EVERYTHING I could get my hands on before I tried a moderate short cycle of 8 weeks of test and deca. Granted I’m pretty dense and most people would be able to come up with a well thought-out plan in less than the year and a half it took me. But the point is unless you are willing to learn everything you can from reliable sources you just should be dabbling.

    Now, back to the original question of the topic. Do you REALLY need to use bodybuilding drugs? This answer will greatly vary depending on what you want your physique to look like. The chances are slim for the average guy, with average genetics to build even a mid-level competitive physique without them, but MOST guys are not really looking to be that big anyway. Most guys want a lean strong looking physique that will turn heads wherever they go, and want to be able to take their shirt off and be proud. And you don’t need 19-inch arms to do that.

    Now the sad part. I come across people all the time doing gram plus a week gear and PH cycles that don’t even look like they train and can’t bench 200 for 10 or squat 275 for 10. This is primarily because they are clueless about how to eat and train, and believe the gear will iron-out all these mistakes—THEY ARE WRONG! Unless you know how to grow clean, you are unlikely to be successful in the long term by simply throwing a bunch of gear at the problem.

    This is bodybuilding turned upside down and inside out. If you can’t make pretty fair gains training clean and invest some time to build your poundage’s up before jumping on the gear wagon, you need to reevaluate your training/diet, and you commitment to this sport, no matter what you reasons are for being involved with it.

    Everyone who has read my posts knows I am not anti-PH/Steroid, but the horse must come before the cart.

    Iron Addict
    www.ironaddicts.com

  • #2
    Very very good post.
    CrossFit Champions
    Champions Combat Arts

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    • #3
      True enough. Too many people that use drugs that have no clue how to effectively train that I have seen. It's pretty sad. There is a dealer I am aware of that sells to high school kids. Talk about wreckless. These kids barely know the concept of sets and reps much less any solid compound training under there belts. It's pretty sad. I would recommend that someone be at least 25 years old AND have been consistently training in a SERIOUS and productive regimine for at least 3 years.
      International Elite Raw Powerlifter
      Blood - Sweat - Chalk

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      • #4
        Good advice IA .
        The Phoenix Rising

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        • #5
          well put
          Livin' for the pump

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          • #6
            I'm still amazed that when I replied to this on Avant, the first thing that happened, was that the teens got all offended, as if we were all just about "keeping down their progress". As if we give a flying shit about their gains.
            I just don't want idiot teens screwing themselves up (for their sake), and in turn, causing a further crackdown on my adult responsible choice.
            :angry:
            Last edited by ctgblue; 09-30-2004, 09:37 AM.
            Lift big 2 get big
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            Obesity related illness will account for more than 1/2 of all health care costs in the next few years.
            So why is the damn government waging war on the FITNESS Industry??
            "Before you criticize someone, try walking a mile in their shoes.
            Because, then you're a mile away, AND you've got their shoes"

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            • #7
              Nice post. I do agree with it but personally I feel a person could reach even further before considering gear.

              As for age, I know a few vet bodybuilders and they suggest nothing before your 25, there no reason for it, your natural test level should be great if your eating and training well.

              As for the lifts, I personally think they could go up a bit, squating and deadlifting 350, you can do that as a natty, perhaps say 600 or more, then I might consider use. But that my standard.
              Official Web Designer of Intensemuscle.com :peace:

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              • #8
                Originally posted by ctgblue
                I'm still amazed that when I replied to this on Avant, the first thing that happened, was that the teens got all offended, as if we were all just about "keeping down their progress". As if we give a flying shit about their gains.
                I just don't want idiot teens screwing themselves up (for their sake), and in turn, causing a further crackdown on my adult responsible choice.
                :angry:
                I am going to make a very bold statement here that might get under the skin of some of our younger guys but if you are a teen, you shouldn't have strong opinions on much of anything bodybuilding related because you do not know what the hell you are doing yet. There are a few exceptions but I can even think of one cat that claims to be "ranked 7th in the world" that should not be opening his mouth about half of the shit that he does.

                Problem with teens is most of them are trying and wanting SOOO badly to be treated like an adult that they pretend to have educated opinions on EVERYTHING - whether bodybulding related or not. A teenager giving advice or opinions on gear is like them giving advice on fucking. They THINK they know what they are doing but in reality, they have no clue.

                I have already said that if I find a teen coming on here dishing out advice and pretending or disillusioned into thinking he or she is experienced, I am going to put a foot square in their ass as I show them the door. Bodybuilding.com is just around the corner. See ya.

                Skip


                Facebook: Skip Hill
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                • #9
                  Stop sending them to us skip, we got enough already
                  I ban several daily ......
                  Lift big 2 get big
                  TrueProtein.com Use discount code ctg001 for additional savings on already great prices
                  mod at bodybuilding.com
                  mod at iron-forum.com
                  mod at melanoplanet.com

                  Obesity related illness will account for more than 1/2 of all health care costs in the next few years.
                  So why is the damn government waging war on the FITNESS Industry??
                  "Before you criticize someone, try walking a mile in their shoes.
                  Because, then you're a mile away, AND you've got their shoes"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Great thread guys, its crazy what you mention over at Avant CTG. They must be really set in their ways. I mean why the fuck, would we care about the gains these kiddies are making.

                    At the end of the day its upto them if they want to, but at least the likes of IA etc... are putting the message out there, and those who have enough brain cells to realise that AAS use isn't neccessary. Before certain requirements are met, and then AAS could be considered.
                    I admit that i almost used at 19, but was talked round by Ernie Taylor. Im glad i didnt, because there is so much to be had naturally.
                    GOODFELLA....

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                    • #11
                      Eh, I see nothing wrong with a 17 or 18 year old taking AAS, as long as he's truly serious about his training.

                      The idea that you should have "strength requirements" for AAS use is pretty ridiculous. Lots of good bodybuilders started juicing very early in their training.

                      Hope Skip doesn't ban me.

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                      • #12
                        There bodies aren't ready. Hormonally they are screwing their bodies up even more. They have plenty of test already. THEY NEED KNOWLEDGE, PAITENCE AND PERSISTENCE...not some fucking drug. And if he's serious he can wait. Because he will be smart enough to know better.
                        International Elite Raw Powerlifter
                        Blood - Sweat - Chalk

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                        • #13
                          Well, we all now know how old Brian is....

                          Iron Addict
                          www.ironaddicts.com

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by iron addict
                            Well, we all now know how old Brian is....

                            Iron Addict
                            lol

                            Yeah, a bit of a "give away", huh? : )

                            I won't ban you, bro. I just don't want you running around giving advice about something that you aren't experienced with, that's all.

                            I might even agree with you that strength shouldn't be the guage but I think he was just trying to make a point of reference for everyone to get his idea of when it might be a bit wiser to get on gear, if at all. See, you talk about "serious" training but that is a relative term. Some might think they are serious as they train for 4 or 5 months and then give it up because it is time to hang out at the beach all summer. If you like, you can define "serious" as in your case and I can give my opinion as to whether you are actually serious or not. : ) I do not say this in a shitty or critical way. I actually mean this only to show you how not serious you really are as a teen. That's all.

                            Skip


                            Facebook: Skip Hill
                            Instagram: @intensemuscle
                            YouTube: TEAMSKIP
                            TikTok: @intensemuscle


                            For Training Inquiries: [email protected]

                            Use discount code "SKIP" and get your TEAM SKIP protein here: www.TrueNutrition.com/TEAMSKIPblend

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                            • #15
                              I think teens and early twenties is too young period.

                              Men at that age have a ton of endogenous test in their system and if their training and diet is on the money they will make excellent gains.



                              Then you have the mental side of things. I think most young guys are into partying and fighting as much as anything. AAS will greatly enhance the Superman syndrome IMO in most, but not all, young guys.

                              I see PLENTY of college age guys at my gym that are certainly using-and I hear them talk about partying, fighting, etc more than anything else. These guys just are not mature enough at this point in life...and probably never will be.

                              Notice I said most and not all.....
                              [email protected] http://www.proactivehealthnet.com

                              " We know that to err is human, but the HIV/AIDS hypothesis is one hell of a mistake"
                              Dr. Kary Mullis, Nobel Prize Winner in Chemistry for inventing the Polymerase Chain Reaction


                              "The fact is that you can not start off with bad science and end up with good medicine"

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