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  • Problem with Adding Fat to Bulk Up

    In the thread, "Are you a BodyBuilder" we talked quite a bit about nutrition. I pointed out that putting on large amounts of fat can really work against you. Someone else mentioned the impact on insulin sensitivity.

    My understanding is that over time, consumption of high glycemic carbohydrates leads to insulin insensitivity. One of the roles of insulin is delivery of nutrients to your cells (your muscle for instance). If your body becomes less sensitive to insulin, you will have a more difficult time getting those nutrient to your muscle tissue. Given that, I think it would be harder to build muscle since nutrient delivery is key to growth.

    So what are high glycemic carbohydrates? High glycemic carbohydrates are carbohydrates that have an immediate impact on blood glucose. So, say you eat a Krispy Creme donut. That donut has bread (high glycemic) and very simple sugar (high glycemic) and plenty of saturated fat. When you eat donuts, your blood sugar spikes and insulin is produced. The carbs can be burned, stored as glycogen, or stored as fat. If your blood sugar is high enough, you can be assured that you will be storing fat. A Krispy Creme donut is the worst case. It combines high glycemic carbs with fat and turns the old fat storage conveyer belt on in overdrive.

    Over time your body will need to produce more and more insulin in order to control blood sugar. This can eventually lead to diabetes, high blood pressure, etc.

    As bodybuilders, we want to be insulin sensitive. We can selectively use high glycemic carbohydrates to our advantage. Take your post workout meal for example. This is a perfect time to combine whey protein (fast uptake), high glycemic carbs (causes insulin spike), creatine, vitamins, and minerals. Your body needs to replenish glycogen and feed muscle tissue. The insulin spike fascilitates that process and leads to rebuilding and growth we are all seeking.

    Through the rest of the day you need to be eating good protein sources, low to moderate glycemic carbs, and good fats.


    I firmly believe that you can build mass by eating clean food. During bulking, 50% of your nutrients ought to be carbohydrates. The carbohydrates should be selected and timed to produce the desired effect. For the most part you should focus on carbs that help you manage blood glucose and don't hamper insulin sensitivity (with the exception of the post workout meal .. as I mentioned).

    I hope this helps. This particular areas is one I have researched extensively.

    Sparky
    p.s. to keep life interesting in the offseason, I have a free day to indulge in whatever I like to eat. My weakness is Macaroni Grill's chocolate cake and Starbuck's Mochas.

    Romans 1:16-17


    :director: for 5% off products from trueprotein.com, use the discount code MWD888

    100% doing it myself and 100% accountable for what I do. No excuses. -- Sparky

    Find a seasoned mentor and learn. My biggest improvements have come not from hours of tedious research, but by listening to those who have been in the trenches -- Sparky

    Judges expect muscle but respect conditioning -- Sparky

  • #2
    I think you sounds like you are mixing to issues here. I think most agree that you MUST eat cleanly. The nutrients we consume should be low gylcemic carbs as IH has stated as few times. Hopefully there arent people that think eating McD's is a part of their training table. But most would agree that the mehtod to gain in the off season works.

    Good post nonetheless.
    International Elite Raw Powerlifter
    Blood - Sweat - Chalk

    Comment


    • #3
      Oh, I am starting to enjoy the atmosphere around here a bit more lately - alot of opinions and debate. I LOVE this sort of shit and I know alot of the guys on the board like to follow a good debate, also.

      Here is my opinion... as if someone asked lol :

      First, of course the cleaner you eat the better. HOWEVER, even though this is recommended and obviously better all the way around, if you polled the offseason bodybuilders on this site or any other site with a good amount of bodybuilders, you would find that the majority of guys do NOT eat as clean as you might define "clean" eating. I am talking about experienced bodybuilders to novices. Now, our definitions of "clean" are probably going to differ as much as "what a bodybuilder is" but to me clean means the same type of foods as you would eat precontest plus some flavoring like adding low fat mayo, non-fat cream cheese, higher glycemic carbs like whole wheat bagels and brown rice, etc.. I do NOT consider Pizza or Burger King to be "cheat days". I consider noodles and company with triple chicken breast to be a cheat meal. I do not consider Krispy Kreme a cheat meal but rather an 18 egg omelette with low fat cheese and skim milk.

      In my experience and that of MY clients, I find that when you try to control or limit bodyfat while adding size, you are going to limit growth to some degree. It is much easier to eat all the time and GROW all the time than it is to try to time everything and be precise so that you stay lean but continue to grow. Can you grow and stay relatively lean? SURE you can but it is much harder to contantly keep yourself in an anabolic state while limiting calories for most - especially guys that tend to put on fat relatively easily.

      I think that most "hardgainers" are really only guys that can't stomach the amount of food it takes to grow and can't stand the thought of increasing their bodyfat a bit while forcing their body to grow.

      There, that oughta light a fire under someone's ass. lol

      Bring it..... I dare ya. ; )

      Skip


      Facebook: Skip Hill
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      • #4
        I think the GI is highly overated personally.

        I have known guy`s who ate so called high glycemic foods and got ripped to shit for contests eating this way.

        The whole key IMO, is to eat clean carb sources, and not to exceed your pre-determined carb total for the day.

        Back in the day, guy`s got cut, and guy`s got huge,long before the GI was ever heard about.

        You aint gonna` build no muscle eating crap like Krispy Kremes which are totally devoid of any bodybuilding nutrients anyway.

        eat carbs from clean sources ,but don`t go freakin` crazy on `em !!
        Last edited by ski; 09-21-2004, 03:26 PM.
        The Phoenix Rising

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        • #5
          I am in CAPS below.....

          Originally posted by ski
          I have known guy`s who ate so called high glycemic foods and got ripped to shit for contests eating this way.

          THIS IS A VERY GOOD POINT AND I AGREE AS I USED TO USE HIGH GI CARBS ALL THE TIME AND NEVER HAD A PROBLEM GETTING SHREDDED. HOWEVER, I BELIEVE THAT NOT EVERYONE CAN GET AWAY WITH THIS AS THERE ARE ALOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE WHAT IS CALLED HYPERINSULINEMIC. THEY ARE INCREDIBLY SENSITIVE TO HIGH GI CARBS AND THE FATTER YOU ARE, THE MORE LIKELY THAT THIS IS THE CASE.
          ALSO, EVEN IF SOMEONE IS NOT SENSITIVE TO HIGHER GI CARBS, THEY WILL STILL HAVE A HARDER TIME DEALING WITH BLOOD SUGAR LEVELS WHILE DIEING IF THEY USE HIGH GI CARBS. BASICALLY, THEY WILL FIND THAT THEY ARE HUNGRY MUCH SOONER AFTER EATING AND THEY RUN THE RISK OF BLOWING THEIR DIET MUCH MORE THAN IF THEY SUSTAINED BLOOD SUGAR LEVELS BECAUSE THE ONLY TIME ANYONE EVER IS HUNGRY OR HAS A CRAVING IS WHEN BLOOD SUGAR LEVELS DROP.

          You aint gonna` build no muscle eating crap like Krispy Kremes which are totally devoid of any bodybuilding nutrients anyway.

          HMMM.... I ABSOLUTELY AGREE THAT THERE ARE MUCH CLEANER WAYS TO GROW THAN KRISPY KREMES. HOWEVER, THE CARBS IN KRISPY KREMES ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN CARBS IN WHITE RICE OR WHITE POTATOES, ETC..
          DAVE POLUMBO EATS ENOUGH MCDONALD'S CHEESEBURGERS TO KILL A NORMAL AMERICAN TWICE OVER. HE DOESN'T SEEM TO HAVE TROUBLE GAINING SIZE.

          I AIN'T HATIN', I'M DEBATIN'. ; )

          SKIP


          Facebook: Skip Hill
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          • #6
            Hey Skip!

            (Your quote)
            I do NOT consider Pizza or Burger King to be "cheat days". I consider noodles and company with triple chicken breast to be a cheat meal. I do not consider Krispy Kreme a cheat meal but rather an 18 egg omelette with low fat cheese and skim milk.


            (Just wondering why you consider noodles and co with 3x chix a cheat meal and the 18 egg omelette a cheat meal as well, but not the other two?)

            Comment


            • #7
              Guys interesting discussion. Being a novice here I think I can learn something from the "real world" of bodybuilding.

              I used the Krispy Kreme example simply because it was way out there and helped my illustrate my point.

              Skip, I think our definitions of clean eating during the offseason are very close to the same. I add food in like whole wheat bagels, whole wheat pasta, etc. etc. My contest preparation is much more mundane.

              Ski, I agree that some folks can tolerate high glycemic carbs and get ripped -- I'm just not one of those people. I think folks that have really high running metabolisms may have to eat higher glycemic food (or constantly) to remain anabolic. Would you agree that this is the exception rather than the rule?

              Spark

              Romans 1:16-17


              :director: for 5% off products from trueprotein.com, use the discount code MWD888

              100% doing it myself and 100% accountable for what I do. No excuses. -- Sparky

              Find a seasoned mentor and learn. My biggest improvements have come not from hours of tedious research, but by listening to those who have been in the trenches -- Sparky

              Judges expect muscle but respect conditioning -- Sparky

              Comment


              • #8
                HMMM.... I ABSOLUTELY AGREE THAT THERE ARE MUCH CLEANER WAYS TO GROW THAN KRISPY KREMES. HOWEVER, THE CARBS IN KRISPY KREMES ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN CARBS IN WHITE RICE OR WHITE POTATOES, ETC..

                Skip, but rice and white potatoes have no fat of course and Krispy Creams do have fat and saturated fat along with high GI carbs, so when you have that spike that fat will be forced into adipose tissue, I know you know this you are just messing with us, I understand you said "carbs".

                Sparky, I disagree that 50% of nutrients while gaining muscle has to be carbs, simple or complex, I will get fat as a pig doing this, trust me I know it for a fact, I have been obese my whole life, for me its 65% protein, 25% carbs and 10% fat...
                "That damn log book"

                www.trueprotein.com Highest quality protein at the lowest price...

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                • #9
                  And Skip knows this better than anyone here, we are all going to react different to everything we put down our throats, I know we have general guide lines but they must be done individually...
                  "That damn log book"

                  www.trueprotein.com Highest quality protein at the lowest price...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sparky
                    Ski, I agree that some folks can tolerate high glycemic carbs and get ripped -- I'm just not one of those people. I think folks that have really high running metabolisms may have to eat higher glycemic food (or constantly) to remain anabolic. Would you agree that this is the exception rather than the rule?
                    You must also take in consideration each persons supplement regimes, some that use GH have to eat high GI sweets and they will get shredded faster...
                    "That damn log book"

                    www.trueprotein.com Highest quality protein at the lowest price...

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                    • #11
                      Please understand that I enjoy challenging people whether I agree or not. I think I have much more fun debating than I do strictly giving my own opinion. ; )

                      I am not sure you are familiar with Noodles and Company but they have good fats in them and they have vegetables along with the noodles and chicken. So, there is at least positive nutritional value in this meal vs. Burger King or Krispy Kreme. The quality of protein will be much higher and the micronutrient profile will be much better, also. Fiber is almost non-existent in fast food, too.

                      The point I was making by giving examples of cheat meals is that they should still maintain a healthy nutritive value and not be there simply to satisfy the brain with no regard for nutrition.

                      Skip


                      Originally posted by Alwayslearning
                      Hey Skip!

                      (Your quote)
                      I do NOT consider Pizza or Burger King to be "cheat days". I consider noodles and company with triple chicken breast to be a cheat meal. I do not consider Krispy Kreme a cheat meal but rather an 18 egg omelette with low fat cheese and skim milk.


                      (Just wondering why you consider noodles and co with 3x chix a cheat meal and the 18 egg omelette a cheat meal as well, but not the other two?)


                      Facebook: Skip Hill
                      Instagram: @intensemuscle
                      YouTube: TEAMSKIP
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                      For Training Inquiries: [email protected]

                      Use discount code "SKIP" and get your TEAM SKIP protein here: www.TrueNutrition.com/TEAMSKIPblend

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                      • #12
                        I figured you used the KK example for that reason BUT some guys (and I know of more than a few) that have used doughnuts as either their breakfast or preworkout nutrition in the past. So, I wasn't refering to you as much as refering in general. Our ideas of clean eating might be pretty close to the same but I made my point only because I think alot of guys don't understand how badly MOST bodybuilders/trainers actually eat during a "bulking" phase and still consider it "clean".

                        I think the last question was for Ski so I won't hog it for myself. hehe

                        Skip



                        Originally posted by Sparky
                        Guys interesting discussion. Being a novice here I think I can learn something from the "real world" of bodybuilding.

                        I used the Krispy Kreme example simply because it was way out there and helped my illustrate my point.

                        Skip, I think our definitions of clean eating during the offseason are very close to the same. I add food in like whole wheat bagels, whole wheat pasta, etc. etc. My contest preparation is much more mundane.

                        Ski, I agree that some folks can tolerate high glycemic carbs and get ripped -- I'm just not one of those people. I think folks that have really high running metabolisms may have to eat higher glycemic food (or constantly) to remain anabolic. Would you agree that this is the exception rather than the rule?

                        Spark


                        Facebook: Skip Hill
                        Instagram: @intensemuscle
                        YouTube: TEAMSKIP
                        TikTok: @intensemuscle


                        For Training Inquiries: [email protected]

                        Use discount code "SKIP" and get your TEAM SKIP protein here: www.TrueNutrition.com/TEAMSKIPblend

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by In-Human
                          Skip, but rice and white potatoes have no fat of course and Krispy Creams do have fat and saturated fat along with high GI carbs, so when you have that spike that fat will be forced into adipose tissue, I know you know this you are just messing with us, I understand you said "carbs".

                          .


                          Skip


                          Facebook: Skip Hill
                          Instagram: @intensemuscle
                          YouTube: TEAMSKIP
                          TikTok: @intensemuscle


                          For Training Inquiries: [email protected]

                          Use discount code "SKIP" and get your TEAM SKIP protein here: www.TrueNutrition.com/TEAMSKIPblend

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            For myself in the whole offseason eating thing, I only have a cheat meal perhaps once a month, maybe only every 8 weeks. The rest of the time I try to just eat moderate low glycemic carbs and low but good fasts.

                            So based on the original post Sparky is stating, I myself would be an amazing bodybuilder because I am very insulin sensitive. Funny I think differently.

                            As for the Krispy Kreme Donuts, I can say I have never tasted one, they sell them here all the time in Canada, and we have them in the office all the time, but I know to my body those things are like pure crack.

                            And at the same time, I spent the better part of my teen years and childhood eating shit, lots of junk food and candies, so right now I just don't have the desire to eat those kinds of food, as long as it taste good and fills me up, I'm happy.
                            Official Web Designer of Intensemuscle.com :peace:

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                            • #15
                              Sparky,I agree with you on how some people will tolerate high glycemic carbs differently I was just pointing out that some can get away with eating them and still get lean.

                              Skip,pass the Krispy Kremes bro,don`t hog `em all to yourself!!!
                              The Phoenix Rising

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