Non Responders

[tallis71]

Was curious to get a take in this topic from those of you who train clients. Have you seen it yourself? Is it really a "thing" or is it a simple fact of the trainee not working hard enough, or not applying the right exercises for their body type etc?

If you have come across it yourself, what were the techniques that helped to finally get a response, if at all?

[Collabera]

Occasionally I have a client who doesn't respond. I don't think it's ever the program or the schedule. For me, it's usually the people who cancel sessions all the time with bad excuses and eat terrible on the weekends. Yes part of the job is motivating people. But you can only do so much. I've had a few people pay big money for sessions ahead of time this year who seem to think just cause they buy the sessions means the results come with little work. No different than someone buying a supplement to replace the diet and training.

As long as the program has a focus on progression and intensity most should respond. Especially the average trainee who is coming from a sedentary lifestyle. Also, I try to find clients other results than inches and scale weight. How they feel, how they move about through the day, back pain etc...

As for the second question, if someone isn't going to apply themselves than there is nothing to fix. I have the luxury of having plenty of other people to work with that will apply themselves.

[nexa]

As for the second question, if someone isn't going to apply themselves than there is nothing to fix.

This.^

[tallis71]

Sorry. I'm a dickhead!

I meant in terms of gaining muscle mass. With all things being reletively on point: diet, training etc.

Was in too much of a rush to get out the door, I didn't explain myself clearly!

[SAHD]

From what I have experienced it is usually drive/intensity, consistency and diet - in that order that reduces gains especially in natties.

Not pushing hard enough and stopping a few reps short is something I hate doing myself and will struggle with those last reps or even just one more rep.

I have had it said to me many times by others that they thought I was going to quit but got 3 more reps. I ask if that is because that is where they would have quit and this point is usually conceded.

Had a guy who had got crap results training come and do one session with me. At the end he told he felt like he hadn't ever done a proper training session before that day and that he thought he had been doing the right thing but had now adjusted his view point. He put on 8kg the next year at age 40.

Regarding consistency with training and consistency with diet - these are the next big hurdles, a lot of people find an excuse to not get it done.

The other morning my wife woke me early and asked if I would like to do an impromptu training session with her or sleep in. I said "I've got all day to be tired but we only have now to train". I was up and gone in under 5 mins.

[jmhester1956]

I'm not a trainer by trade but I have helped out a few kids over the years. My frustration was they wouldn't eat enough. They were all gung ho to lift heavy weights and such but wouldn't follow it up by eating enough calories.
If you asked most of the big guys on this board, I bet they would tell you they went through a period of nearly force feeding themselves. Just look at some of Dante's posts. He was skinny as hell and feed himself up to like 240 I believe drug free.

[tallis71]

I'm not a trainer by trade but I have helped out a few kids over the years. My frustration was they wouldn't eat enough. They were all gung ho to lift heavy weights and such but wouldn't follow it up by eating enough calories.
If you asked most of the big guys on this board, I bet they would tell you they went through a period of nearly force feeding themselves. Just look at some of Dante's posts. He was skinny as hell and feed himself up to like 240 I believe drug free.

Mentioning the kids not eating enough. I was talking to a clients teenage son who's 16 years old about gaining size. I asked him what he ate. Said he ate big for a few days, followed by a few days of undereating. I found this quite interesting coming from a position of overeating constantly and getting fat. The fact that he seemed to self regulate his calorie intake over the course of the week I found pretty intriguing. And yes, definitely explains why he doesn't gain weight.

[jmhester1956]

Yeah, they call that calorie zig zag. Google it and you'll get tons of info. It works pretty good for cutting but not so much for gaining size.
You just got to stuff yourself. People stress too much about getting fat in my opinion. You can worry about gaining lean after your up to a decent size. The average guy doesn't even look like he lifts until he hits 220.
Seriously, no dis here but if that's how you look in your profile pic, you need to eat some chow. Just ask Sammich or any of the big guys. You got to eat big to grow.

[Collabera]

I am going to go slightly against what has been said in the last few post and say that force feeding constantly is not necessarily the answer. Sure you could eat like a mad man throughout your offseason but the result will likely be insulin resistance to enough of a degree that getting the extra body fat off will be an intense struggle. And you will gain plenty of body fat if you become too insulin resistant. Which in turn will effect your ability to put on new muscle.

Gaining muscle is a slow process, don't force the hell out of it. Progressively add more calories when your current intake isn't working anymore. Its not gonna happen just because you get good at stuffing your face. Your foods should be clean too. With the occasional refeed. Do you need to eat a lot of food to grow? Yes, I'm not saying you shouldn't. But progressively build up to a high level of calories and use just enough to grow as you do cut just enough to lose weight. Also you can eat all the calories you want but if you aren't training balls to the wall nothing is going to change.

That's just my take and maybe it doesn't differ too much from what you guys are saying above. It could be that we are just misunderstanding the wording of things. I personally have put on 30-40lbs in my last few off seasons just to have to diet and do cardio hard for 6+ months to get shredded again. I don't think that was worth it and I likely set myself back more than anything.

[LG1]

^^^agreed

[tallis71]

Yeah, they call that calorie zig zag. Google it and you'll get tons of info. It works pretty good for cutting but not so much for gaining size.
You just got to stuff yourself. People stress too much about getting fat in my opinion. You can worry about gaining lean after your up to a decent size. The average guy doesn't even look like he lifts until he hits 220.
Seriously, no dis here but if that's how you look in your profile pic, you need to eat some chow. Just ask Sammich or any of the big guys. You got to eat big to grow.

Yep, that's me about this time last year. And no, I certainly won't stuff myself and get fat. Have been fat most of my adult life. The sleep apnea, accompanied by the midnight gagging on my own vomit as well as the Atrial Fibrillation I also developed stops me from going back there ever again. And as much as I do want some more size on my frame, if I push my weight up higher I find the AF flares up. And after 2 operations to fix it, it's not something I'm keen on going through again! Last op was in May last year. So far, I've only had 1 incidence of AF which lasted for approx 3 hours. So I count the op as a success considering I used to spend half the week in AF.

And at 44, I don't think stuffing my face in the attempt to gain size is the right route.

[doug1]

To take from Scott Abel, you can't sculpt a pebble. Gotta go through that period of a few years of looking like a blob.