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Understanding Lyle McDonald's keto book help

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  • Understanding Lyle McDonald's keto book help

    So been revisiting some of the keto book I have here because I'm ready to go back on CKD. I wanna make sure I'm doing stuff right and if I'm going to be perfectly honest about myself I don't feel I'm quite smart enough to fully understand his writing. So I'm probably going to have a few questions overtime. But for now I want to start with this one. And forgive me if I'm seriously coming off as stupid. But with his recommended daily calories for a moderately active 180 pound man he has you placed at 2300 calories to lose weight. My question is I've always read that maintenance is 10 cals per pound of weight and in order to lose you should adjust down ~200 cals a day. But he has maintenance at 15-16 cals per lb and deficit at 12-13. So I'm confused. Now I've also read that for maintenance on keto is simply different than a more balanced nutrition plan. That it would be more. I'm not calling his research into question he's clearly far more vetted than I ever will be. I'm just curious as to if I'm reading this correctly and why there is a discrepancy from other material I've read. Thanks a lot for any help

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  • #2
    The reason there is a discrepancy is because literally every single calorie estimator in the history of the internet is just that... An estimator.

    In general the numbers that they provide are11a good starting point, but ultimately you will have to assess YOUR results and then adjust based on them. 2300 sounds like a decent starting point, but you might need 3000 or you might be at maintenance at that level. Try it for 2 weeks and see.

    This is the stuff that people hire others to figure out for them because honestly its the boring, shitty part of the sport for most people. Tracking calories, adjusting them slightly, tracking again, readjusting, etc... Some of us sicko's like it, but many do not. Not everyone has the desire to add or subtract 50g of carbs for 2 weeks to see what it does for them... This is also one of the reasons so few will ever look like body builders.


    • #3
      Hmm, ive never seen maintenance suggested at only 10x. I have seen that suggested as deficit starting pt before. Ill say this though, if following lyles work, follow exactly. His plans are not outlines. They are more do as I say plans. If 15x is too much, adjust.

      Ive always used multiplier approach for maintenance. Lbm x activity level. I use normal activity, not exercise personally. I then subtract those cals manually. I work desk job so I go w lbmx1.2. Then I add what I burn through exercise that day. I use fitbit charge hr and find it to b fairly accurate but I subtract 300cals as I think it overshoots a bit.

      I utilize ckd style w skiploading. Best approach ive ever used. The combo, imo works beautifully together.


      • #4
        I did Lyle's UD 2.0 strict for about 8 weeks last year and the calories are a lot lower than 10x bodyweight for 4 days during the week.

        With that diet you're basically at 50% maintenance. You can track what you eat for 2 weeks to get that maintenance or, imo, use just use Alan Aragon's simple equation:

        Total Energy Expenditure = Target bodyweight in pounds x (8-10 or 9-11 + average total weekly training hours)

        9 = low intensity training.
        10 = moderate intensity training.
        11 = high intensity training

        If your TDEE is 2500 cals, you're on 1250 cals (or eat slightly more and add some cardio) with 50g carbs or so for 4 days then carb load hard for about 24 hours.

        That's oversimplified (the protocol has a lot of specifics) but basically what it is. Heavy depletion through full body workouts (high rep early in the week, heavier towards end of week) then massive cab up.

        Very effective for fat burning and can be modified by increasing calories depending on your goals. Very challenging to follow.
        Last edited by merkin; 03-13-2015, 08:07 AM.


        • #5
          Yes I used it with Skiploading last time as well. However when I did it I stated with 10 cals per lb and subtracted about 100 cals and crept downward as my fat dropped

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          • #6
            Second question. I put my self in at moderate intensity since he lists that St about 3-4 days of exercise and I use the DC 2 way split. So I believe I'm correct there yes?

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            • #7
              Just remember its a starting pt. U may need to adjust based on real results. Im meso-endo so I've found the 1.2 multiplier to b perfect. But as I said I take my actual exercise cals into account for better accuracy. Being 3 weeks out I train twice daily most days.


              • #8
                IMO start high, and err on the side of caution VS end up backed into a corner.

                How many calories have you been eating per day currently?(before starting the diet)


                • #9

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                  • #10
                    What Lonnie and Imprez said. Everyone is going to be different and starting a bit high gives you room to adjust which is so key when dropping fat. It is like starting with 2 hours of cardio a day, when you stop losing, then what, 3, madness? Hahaha

                    I remember getting Lyles book when it first came out in 98 or 99, I was in college and lived that diet for 7 months straight. Carb day was so freaking fun for me as I was not getting on stage or anything so I used Far from clean sources of carbs. For what it may be worth, Lyle's reccomendations were and still are fairly accurate for me, maintenance is 15-17. I have had training partners where its 12 though so it is a wide scale. Monitor and adjust every 2-3 weeks
                    "You need never feel broken again"


                    • #11
                      Or you could just follow the plan outlined in the CKD book and adjust from there.

                      Caloric intake:

                      Mass gains: 18 calories per pound or more
                      Maintenance calories/starting the diet: 15-16 calories per pound
                      Fat loss: starting at 12 calories per pound

                      5 Low Carb Days

                      Carbohydrate intake - 30 grams or less per day.

                      The fewer carbohydrates which are consumed, the faster ketosis can be established. The amount of carbohydrates consumed is more critical on a CKD than on either the SKD or TKD as there are only 5-6 days to establish ketosis.

                      Protein intake

                      During the first 3 weeks of the CKD, protein intake should be set at either 0.9 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight or 150 grams per day, whichever is greater.

                      After three weeks of dieting, protein should be set at 0.9 grams of protein/pound of bodyweight.

                      Fat intake - Fat intake will make up the remainder of the calories in the diet

                      Carb Up

                      Begin consuming carbohydrates (25-50g) approximately 5 hours prior to the final workout.

                      Approximately 2 hours before the final workout, a combination of glucose and fructose (with optional glutamine) should be consumed, to refill liver glycogen.

                      First 24 hour Carb load - 160lb|720grams, 180lb|810grams, 200lb and up 900grams (2x calories consumed on low carb days)

                      Second 24 hours - 160lb|360grams, 180lb|405grams, 200lb and up 450grams


                      • #12
                        Sounds good. At least starting cals that high for me would allow for beef. Anyone have an issues with red meat and dieting down? It's been hit or miss with me in the past. I find its less boring to eat though which is good

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                        • #13
                          maintenance is definnitely 14-16 for males, he's stated this in several books and articles. 10 is way too low


                          • #14
                            Wagz, you are a snowflake:


                            The Book Has Arrived!
                            The Book Has Arrived!

                            Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


                            2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
                            2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
                            2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's


                            • #15
                              Haha. Yeah. I get it. What's funny is first I read that and was like who the fuck is he calling snowflake. But then I clicked the link. Yeah I get what you're saying. And while I'm gonna say that I've understood that concept for a while now. I know myself well enough to know that I forget to remember certain truths when it comes to all this stuff. If that makes sense

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