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  • Arnold Calls Out IFBB Judges

    Thoughts?

    https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1052393161443250


    2017 NPC National Championships Classic Physique, Class D - 4th Place
    2017 NPC New England Championships Classic Physique, Class C - 1st Place
    2017 NPC East Coast Cup Classic Physique, Tall Class - 1st Place & Overall
    2015 Arnold Amateur Men's Classic Bodybuilding, Tall Class - 4th Place
    2013 NPC Europa Battle of Champions - 1st Place Novice Heavyweight, 2nd Place Open Light-Heavyweight



  • #2
    It's criticisms that have been offered in the recent past. I am curious as to if it'll make more of an impact coming from him. It seems that not long ago it was made a big deal about getting the midsections in control, and some of the top tier guys made the effort to comply. (thinking of Jay making a big deal out of bringing in his waist during his last years, Kai downsizing a bit around the same time). Maybe it's forgetfulness to the extent that there is control over keeping it tight.

    Personally, I'm a fan of proportion. Sometimes freakiness is cool for its own sake, but I prefer to keep an eye on the big picture (overall physique) when it comes down to it.
    phoenix13
    OG Mod of all Mods
    Last edited by phoenix13; 03-12-2015, 04:39 PM.
    2014 Greater Gulf States 2nd WPD Class B
    2010 Jr. USA 2nd LHW
    2009 Houston Pro/Am 1st LHW & Overall (Am)
    2008 Jr. Nationals 5th LHW
    2007 Greater Gulf States 1st LHW
    2007 LA Championships 1st LHW & Overall

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    • #3
      It was real bad a few years ago and you are right Phoenix a big deal was made and it got better. This year it seemed to be WAY out of control. I saw a YouTube video that joked there were pregnant women competing.

      Maybe someone like Arnold calling out the ifbb judges and "The Prez" maybe something will change, but I doubt it.

      Just my $.02.
      Joe




      Contest History:
      2017 Muscle Heat - 2nd Place Masters 40+ HWT & 3rd Place LHW
      2017 Gold's Classic - 3rd Place Masters 40+ HWT & 4th Place LHW
      2016 GK Classic - 1st Place MW & 4th Place Masters 40+
      2016 Charlotte Europa - 3rd Place MW & 1st Place Masters 35+
      2015 Mid-Atlantic Classic - 4th Place LHW & 4th Place Masters 40+ HWY
      2014 Muscle Heat Classic - 4th Place LHW & 4th Place Masters 35+ HWY


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      • #4
        I had a subscription to FLEX around the time they were making a big deal about this 10 years ago. Arnold was vocal then, too and nothing drastic changed.

        I said in another thread that before each contest they should weigh each competitor and then have them do a vacuum pose. Those that can't do it are immediately disqualified. I think it's the only way to regulate this kind of stuff. Obviously putting a weight limit isn't sound because competitors are of different heights. The vacuum serves as a guideline for how big someone can get within their own individual structure and limitations while still maintaining aesthetics and conditioning.

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        • #5
          First, it is going to be important to figure out WHY guts are so big now and come to a consensus so that the competitors know, too. It is my opinion that most don't even know for sure why this problem exists and drugs are getting way too much credit. I personally believe it is the force-feeding to grow.

          When they figure this out, then competitors can figure out whether they are going to tone it down and hopefully they do - the current look is SHIT so I completely agree with Arnold on this one. Thing is, until the the majority of competitors get their guts under control, the judging won't change. It can't. They aren't going to move a 7th place guy up to 2nd simply because he dropped his waist size and no one else did. The majority would have to do it or nothing with the judging is going to change.

          Skip


          Facebook: Skip Hill
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          • #6
            Originally posted by Ken "Skip" Hill View Post
            First, it is going to be important to figure out WHY guts are so big now and come to a consensus so that the competitors know, too. It is my opinion that most don't even know for sure why this problem exists and drugs are getting way too much credit. I personally believe it is the force-feeding to grow.

            When they figure this out, then competitors can figure out whether they are going to tone it down and hopefully they do - the current look is SHIT so I completely agree with Arnold on this one. Thing is, until the the majority of competitors get their guts under control, the judging won't change. It can't. They aren't going to move a 7th place guy up to 2nd simply because he dropped his waist size and no one else did. The majority would have to do it or nothing with the judging is going to change.

            Skip
            I'm with you on that, Skip. I think drugs get too much blame/credit here. I DO think however, that HGH plays a role. Obviously, from GH there is elevated IGF-1. There are tons of IGF-1 receptors in the gut. But I think the biggest contributor is the massive amount of food that has to be consumed to maintain that size. This amount keeps the gut active, and keeps blood flowing through the gut throughout the day... IGF-1-rich blood doesn't make matters any better.

            But, what the hell do I know?
            My intro thread: http://intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=49855

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            • #7
              Given that the only "objective" criteria in body building is really muscular body weight and level of conditioning / leanness, I think we are at the natural "conclusion" of body building, and by that I mean if the point of the sport is to showcase a physique that is the largest and leanest it can be... Well then it's going to be very difficult to award Frank Zane over Phil Heath. Even if you like Zane's look more, you simply cannot argue that Phil is a "better" body builder... He has gained more mass as presented it in equal or better conditioning.

              Be it the drugs or eating or both or something else entirely, something about attempting to be as big as possible causes the guts, and unless some arbitrary upper weight limit gets instituted for the heavyweights the problems will continue. So the obvious answer is to, like the 212 class, set some arbitrary upper weight limit on the "open" division as well. The guys aren't getting much bigger as a group these days (Coleman I think tipped the scales at almost 300 one year ON STAGE, and its not like the average weight of the guys is over 300 these days) so I dont think it would stifle the sport to any degree as setting the limit back in the 70's would have when 260 was considered the Mass Monster of the stage

              For the reasons I mentioned in the first paragraph its simply too hard to award certain types of physiques that are more "streamlined" or "X framed" when they are so wildly muscled and conditioned, not to mention that everyone has a different ideal type of physique in their own mind so Arnolds idea of "who do I want to look like" is simply not satisfactory for judging in any meaningful way. You could literally end up with an 8 way split decision.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by MyTMouse View Post
                I'm with you on that, Skip. I think drugs get too much blame/credit here. I DO think however, that HGH plays a role. Obviously, from GH there is elevated IGF-1. There are tons of IGF-1 receptors in the gut. But I think the biggest contributor is the massive amount of food that has to be consumed to maintain that size. This amount keeps the gut active, and keeps blood flowing through the gut throughout the day... IGF-1-rich blood doesn't make matters any better.

                But, what the hell do I know?
                2 reasons why I disagree:

                1. GH was flowing long before guts started being the norm in bodybuilding. The guts started coming on strong in the early to mid-90s and yet gh was rampant prior to that but force-feeding was not.

                2. HIV patients take a lot of gh - sometimes upwards of 12 to 15 to 18iu of REAL pharm grade growth hormone and yet they don't have guts like bodybuilders do.


                I am not saying that gh may not play a part but it is a much smaller part than most people think it is, in my opinion.


                Skip


                Facebook: Skip Hill
                Instagram: @intensemuscle
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                For Training Inquiries: [email protected]

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ken "Skip" Hill View Post
                  2 reasons why I disagree:

                  1. GH was flowing long before guts started being the norm in bodybuilding. The guts started coming on strong in the early to mid-90s and yet gh was rampant prior to that but force-feeding was not.

                  2. HIV patients take a lot of gh - sometimes upwards of 12 to 15 to 18iu of REAL pharm grade growth hormone and yet they don't have guts like bodybuilders do.


                  I am not saying that gh may not play a part but it is a much smaller part than most people think it is, in my opinion.


                  Skip
                  I'm not sure we're really disagreeing here. To clarify, I think it's the combination of the two. In other words, I don't think the force-feeding issue where big guts are concerned would be as big a problem without GH. At the same time, GH isn't an issue WITHOUT the overfeeding, because the bloodflow to the gut isn't as elevated.
                  My intro thread: http://intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=49855

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                  • #10
                    I wonder why HGH always gets all the blame for the guts but nobody says a word about insulin, which under the right circunstances causes visceral fat gain.

                    But I do believe overeating plays more of a role in the distended stomach look than any drug out there.
                    "If you're ready to do DC, you're not gonna give a flying f*(k about fatigue from the previous exercise. You get under the bar and kill it, each and every time." - homonunculus

                    "Nothing better than coming to IM and seeing a Wall of Text next to that big Tricep pic." - Lonnie123

                    “Hateful to me as the gates of Hades is that man who hides one thing in his heart and speaks another.” - Homer

                    The scale doesn't show a number. When he steps on it, it simply reads: Big Mother Fucker. - Skip

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ken "Skip" Hill View Post
                      First, it is going to be important to figure out WHY guts are so big now and come to a consensus so that the competitors know, too. It is my opinion that most don't even know for sure why this problem exists and drugs are getting way too much credit. I personally believe it is the force-feeding to grow.

                      When they figure this out, then competitors can figure out whether they are going to tone it down and hopefully they do - the current look is SHIT so I completely agree with Arnold on this one. Thing is, until the the majority of competitors get their guts under control, the judging won't change. It can't. They aren't going to move a 7th place guy up to 2nd simply because he dropped his waist size and no one else did. The majority would have to do it or nothing with the judging is going to change.

                      Skip
                      The "Eat Big, Get Big" mantra works, but there has to be a limit on things. That's why I like the idea of mini-diets through out the offseason. It's ok to push the fork away and still grow.
                      Twitter:@badbadleroyb

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bad bad leroy b View Post
                        The "Eat Big, Get Big" mantra works, but there has to be a limit on things. That's why I like the idea of mini-diets through out the offseason. It's ok to push the fork away and still grow.
                        Agreed but .... I prefer Classic Bodybuilding even more. lol The limits on weight vs. height is a GREAT idea.

                        Skip


                        Facebook: Skip Hill
                        Instagram: @intensemuscle
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                        For Training Inquiries: [email protected]

                        Use discount code "SKIP" and get your TEAM SKIP protein here: www.TrueNutrition.com/TEAMSKIPblend

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ken "Skip" Hill View Post
                          Agreed but .... I prefer Classic Bodybuilding even more. lol The limits on weight vs. height is a GREAT idea.

                          Skip
                          I'd have to be close to middleweight to fit in that category! lol!
                          Twitter:@badbadleroyb

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                          • #14
                            The winds of change are blowing fellas. Bigger, soon, will not mean better. Lets face it, this is marketing. Its about money. The majority of the population views pro bodybuilders as circus freaks...like a two headed snake or an elastic skin man. That is not where the money is. Why do you think the mens figure or whatever it is called is so popular? Cuz the majority of the people want to look like them. Don't get me wrong, I am neutral on it as I don't compete and never will. But as a "consumer" of the sport, I see no appeal to a 5'4" 225 lb. shredded meatball other than for nominal entertainment. And guys are dedicating their lives to becoming this...

                            Family Guy but also; Old School SoCal, punk rock loving, powerlifting, hardcore gym rat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtLQ73EutoY

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by bad bad leroy b View Post
                              I'd have to be close to middleweight to fit in that category! lol!
                              It is more like high level physique competitors but with legs.

                              Skip


                              Facebook: Skip Hill
                              Instagram: @intensemuscle
                              YouTube: TEAMSKIP
                              TikTok: @intensemuscle


                              For Training Inquiries: [email protected]

                              Use discount code "SKIP" and get your TEAM SKIP protein here: www.TrueNutrition.com/TEAMSKIPblend

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