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  • No such thing as overtraining?

    Rich Piana says there's no such thing as overtraining--there's only under-sleeping and under-eating. Agree or disagree?
    "Be kind, friendly and lenient towards your fellow man, but unrelenting and pitiless with yourself." -- Franz Bardon

  • #2
    Strongly disagree.

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    • #3
      Strongly disagree with Piana and Mike Rashid and CT fletcher. Overtraining is very real and if I'm not mistaken in severe cases death can occur. Someone correct me on this if I am mistaken but I think it is when muscle is broken down into the blood stream and your kidneys can't filter it out. Can't remember the name of this but it happened to some guy doing those Insanity DVDs a few years back. Obviously that's just one consequence of overtraining though.

      I don't think it matters how much you sleep or eat. Your CNS can only recover so quickly
      from extreme training. Besides even if you took in 20,000 calories a day, slept for 10+ hours with naps and trained heavy with weights for an extended period of time, do you really think it would illicit more gains?

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      • #4
        I have always loved this incredibly cliche' comment that has seemingly been around since as far back as I can remember. It was the Barbarian Brothers who used this in the 80s and since then, it has been stolen and re-stolen many times.

        I like the message: don't worry about training too hard; worry about eating more and sleeping more. I get it. Problem is, some of us take this shit quite literally and from a literal standpoint, you can damn sure overtrain. You just need to make sure that if you are overtrained, you first look at whether you are getting enough food and rest. If you are, you need to cut back on the training.

        I like Rich but he "borrowed" that comment; he didn't come up with it on his own.

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        • #5
          I think we have to keep in perspective who his audience is: teenagers and people in their 20s. Most people who are older and more experienced watch his videos to criticize them or laugh but to not actually apply the information due to their level of experience. I would say that in the case of the teenager and earlier 20 something year olds, his target audience, there is some truth to the statement. I'm sure everyone can think back to playing football in high school and having weightlifting class. Maxing out your bench, squat, and cleans everyday of the week then having practice for hours after school then going home and throwing down a ridiculous amount of food and sleeping from 10-6am. No one worried about overtraining back then and if they did it was pretty ironic because the o so knowledgeable one always ended up being the smallest lol. I do understand your point though skip about possible misinterpretation, especially considering what his target audience is and that they might misunderstand his point. Especially since he's the inventor of the 8 hour arm, 16 shake workout lol.

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          • #6
            Skip is spot on. That quote was attributed to the Barbarian Brothers circa 1984 or so. I know this because as a teenager at the time those guys were my idols. We didn't have the internet (obviously) so much of their training feats and mindset were spread via word of mouth. We drove from OC to Venice to watch them train one day. Now, back to the original question. I think you certainly CAN overtrain...but I would say 99% of those who lift, undertrain (or at least not train to their limits). For those who don't think they can overtrain, try running a strict DC program for a month without ZERO days off. I am talking taking sets to complete failure, widow maker squats, etc. for 30 days in a row.
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            • #7
              I used to think this, training long hours and most everyday

              Gains stopped, switched to DC style training, gains are now on par with 'noob gains' seen in newbie lifters...I'm serious

              Been bodybuilding for 5 years. 6' 250lbs, and visible....and I'm making gains that easily by training less than half as much....

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              • #8
                I think the message that sentence tries to convey here is simply lost to most people.

                What the Barbarian Brothers, who were the ones who originally said it, and everyone else who has repeated it lately, all these guys where really trying to say is that if you have all your shit in order, training too much isn't gonna hurt you. Most people could actually benefit from doing MORE work than doing less.

                We all have to agree that Overtraining is a thing that has been blown out of proportion nowadays. Nobody can even agree on what it is, and very few who claim to experience it actually have. Everything is overtraining. Everything leads to overtraining. Overtraining has become the Gluten Intolerance of the weight room realm. Everyone claims to suffer from it, few do.


                EDIT: Sorry if the post seems incomplete. I had more things I wanted to write here, but it's 01AM over here, and I just skidded on a bike at 100 mph. Brain has shutdown for today. Maybe tomorrow.
                Last edited by 0001Delta; 05-22-2015, 12:02 AM.
                "If you're ready to do DC, you're not gonna give a flying f*(k about fatigue from the previous exercise. You get under the bar and kill it, each and every time." - homonunculus

                "Nothing better than coming to IM and seeing a Wall of Text next to that big Tricep pic." - Lonnie123

                “Hateful to me as the gates of Hades is that man who hides one thing in his heart and speaks another.” - Homer

                The scale doesn't show a number. When he steps on it, it simply reads: Big Mother Fucker. - Skip

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Collabera View Post
                  Strongly disagree with Piana and Mike Rashid and CT fletcher. Overtraining is very real and if I'm not mistaken in severe cases death can occur. Someone correct me on this if I am mistaken but I think it is when muscle is broken down into the blood stream and your kidneys can't filter it out. Can't remember the name of this but it happened to some guy doing those Insanity DVDs a few years back. Obviously that's just one consequence of overtraining though.

                  I don't think it matters how much you sleep or eat. Your CNS can only recover so quickly
                  from extreme training. Besides even if you took in 20,000 calories a day, slept for 10+ hours with naps and trained heavy with weights for an extended period of time, do you really think it would illicit more gains?
                  Rhabdomyolysis is a condition in which damaged skeletal muscle tissue breaks down rapidly. Breakdown products of damaged muscle cells are released into the bloodstream; some of these, such as the protein myoglobin, are harmful to the kidneys and may lead to kidney failure.

                  It happens to crossfitters all the time and they make a joke out of it by using some dumbass clown mascot and calling it uncle Rhabdo or Pukie the Clown or something stupid like that.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 0001Delta View Post
                    I think the message that sentence tries to convey here is simply lost to most people.

                    What the Barbarian Brothers, who were the ones who originally said it, and everyone else who has repeated it lately, all these guys where really trying to say is that if you have all your shit in order, training too much isn't gonna hurt you. Most people could actually benefit from doing MORE work than doing less.

                    We all have to agree that Overtraining is a thing that has been blown out of proportion nowadays. Nobody can even agree on what it is, and very few who claim to experience it actually have. Everything is overtraining. Everything leads to overtraining. Overtraining has become the Gluten Intolerance of the weight room realm. Everyone claims to suffer from it, few do.


                    EDIT: Sorry if the post seems incomplete. I had more things I wanted to write here, but it's 01AM over here, and I just skidded on a bike at 100 mph. Brain has shutdown for today. Maybe tomorrow.
                    This is so true... how many training programs are going to come out that say, "Get X results in just Y minutes per day Z times per week!" People want to get more with less... people want an easy way (same thing with newbies starting juice so young and following the likes of Bostin loyd... it is easier to do that than grind away...).

                    Overtraining gives people an excuse to take it easy... why not try to test your limits to see just how far you can push yourself? There are always going to be those that have the mentality that they want the easy way out and there are those that want to be the best... and are willing to push themselves and leave nothing on the table to be the best they can be...
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                    • #11
                      I like what Arnold had to say about ot in flexonline. Pretty common sense
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                      • #12
                        Overtraining is a very real thing...but... the only time I personally have experienced it was during a contest prep on very low calories, 1-2 hours of cardio and 1.5 hours of training a day with less sleep than I should have been getting. That said, it goes right back to the original saying (I also loved the Barbarians in the 80's) ... it is only a real thing if you are not getting enough calories or recovery/sleep. I agree that MOST people are probably undertrained.
                        However, I believe smart, planned deloads and blasts/cruises should be used if you actually ARE pushing the envelope and are using overtraining/overreaching as a training protocol or part of a periodization scheme, especially for old bastards like myself, where recovery just isn't quite what it used to be.
                        "It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument." -William G. McAdoo

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by sampsellta View Post
                          Rhabdomyolysis is a condition in which damaged skeletal muscle tissue breaks down rapidly. Breakdown products of damaged muscle cells are released into the bloodstream; some of these, such as the protein myoglobin, are harmful to the kidneys and may lead to kidney failure.

                          It happens to crossfitters all the time and they make a joke out of it by using some dumbass clown mascot and calling it uncle Rhabdo or Pukie the Clown or something stupid like that.
                          Physical activity by itself does not leads to Rhabdomyolysis, there is a number of factors that must be present for it to happen...things like dehydration, electrolyte imbalance, hyperventilation, hypoxemia, ketoacidosis, etc... in other words, shit that an idiot running around in a box gym in a gas mask for 2 hours will most likely subject himself to.

                          The probability of rhabdomyolysis happening by training itself is nearly impossible, otherwise a lot of people out there would be droping dead, and this shit was nearly unheard off before crossfit...
                          "If you're ready to do DC, you're not gonna give a flying f*(k about fatigue from the previous exercise. You get under the bar and kill it, each and every time." - homonunculus

                          "Nothing better than coming to IM and seeing a Wall of Text next to that big Tricep pic." - Lonnie123

                          “Hateful to me as the gates of Hades is that man who hides one thing in his heart and speaks another.” - Homer

                          The scale doesn't show a number. When he steps on it, it simply reads: Big Mother Fucker. - Skip

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                          • #14
                            I found some HIT type techniques ( Mike Mentzer ) led me to over train. The lack of volume and infrequent training essentially gets you "out of shape". Couple this with workouts involving forced reps, supersets and negatives caused me to stop progressing far more easily than many higher frequency and higher rep programs.
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 0001Delta View Post
                              Physical activity by itself does not leads to Rhabdomyolysis, there is a number of factors that must be present for it to happen...things like dehydration, electrolyte imbalance, hyperventilation, hypoxemia, ketoacidosis, etc... in other words, shit that an idiot running around in a box gym in a gas mask for 2 hours will most likely subject himself to.

                              The probability of rhabdomyolysis happening by training itself is nearly impossible, otherwise a lot of people out there would be droping dead, and this shit was nearly unheard off before crossfit...
                              This ^ .

                              Skip


                              Facebook: Skip Hill
                              Instagram: @intensemuscle
                              YouTube: TEAMSKIP
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                              For Training Inquiries: [email protected]

                              Use discount code "SKIP" and get your TEAM SKIP protein here: www.TrueNutrition.com/TEAMSKIPblend

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