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  • Donkey calf raise alternative??

    Hey all,

    Just wondering if this (inverted leg press??) is an acceptable alternative to donkey calf raises since it's an L-shape...just laying on the back rather than standing.

    Also, any other alternative uses for this piece of equipment?
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    Unless a man undertakes more than he can possibly do, he will never do all he can.

    Unfathomable progress is the result of consistent, daily steps toward a single goal


  • #2
    When I first started training (way back in the day), my partner and I use to do DCR all the time. We got hooked on them after watching pumping iron! Now days trying to get someone to help you do them is virtually impossible. Everyone seems so homophobic when you ask them to jump on your back. This (IMO) is a great movement to build those stubborn calves.
    "SET NO LIMITS"

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    • #3
      Thanks for the input, v1hyp....exactly! That's kinda why I'm searching for an equivalent alternative to someone on my back and since there's no other machine that closely resembles the position of DCR at my current gym.

      Does it seem reasonable to use the machine pictured above?

      The other idea I had was using the smith machine and rest the bar on my lower back with a pad on it...that's how I see it in my mind anyways.
      Unless a man undertakes more than he can possibly do, he will never do all he can.

      Unfathomable progress is the result of consistent, daily steps toward a single goal

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      • #4
        I feel an effective way to mimic a donkey calf raise is to do as you mentioned and use a regular smith machine and on the floor under the bar place some kind of stable box or stack plates (100's work well) that will allow for full extension of the calfs and rest the bar on your bar... I would highly recommend a towel or pad on your lower back as a metal bar across your lower spine isn't pleasant... When doing these, I also have a bench out in front of me I can stabilize myself on with my arms. You can use a bench, a box, or any other support of an appropriate height that will help stabilize your upper body...
        Be true to yourself and fuel your body with nothing less the highest quality supplements. Only available at TrueNutrition.com Use discount code: KSP945 to save 5% on your order!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by mentalflex View Post
          I feel an effective way to mimic a donkey calf raise is to do as you mentioned and use a regular smith machine and on the floor under the bar place some kind of stable box or stack plates (100's work well) that will allow for full extension of the calfs and rest the bar on your bar... I would highly recommend a towel or pad on your lower back as a metal bar across your lower spine isn't pleasant... When doing these, I also have a bench out in front of me I can stabilize myself on with my arms. You can use a bench, a box, or any other support of an appropriate height that will help stabilize your upper body...
          Exactly what I needed to hear, bro! Thanks! :tea:

          I already use the smith for standing calf raises standing on plates, so it's actually very convenient to just camp out there and continue the DCRs.

          For seated calf raises, again my current gym has noythin...NO calf-specific machines at all, I guess I can just use the smith with the (padded) bar on my thigh just above the knees.

          Seems the Smith can be an all-around great tool for calves!
          Unless a man undertakes more than he can possibly do, he will never do all he can.

          Unfathomable progress is the result of consistent, daily steps toward a single goal

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          • #6
            No calf equipment? Sounds like its time to change gyms!!
            "SET NO LIMITS"

            "When the knees hurt you just wrap tighter."-Skip

            2015 NPC Supplement Express:
            2014 NPC Sun City Regional:
            2013 NPC Sun City Classic:
            2010 NPC Virginia Grand Prix:
            2002 NPC Western Carolina:
            2002 NPC North Carolina State:

            Use Discount Code MMH353..

            Comment


            • #7
              Good info from MF and that verticle press will work relatively close to the same angle, though.

              I don't know why donkey calf raises went out of style. I know it made me push even harder when my buddy's sweaty nuts were sitting on my back. Mmm.... Good times.

              Skip


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              • #8
                Donkey calf raise alternative??

                Originally posted by Ken "Skip" Hill View Post
                Good info from MF and that verticle press will work relatively close to the same angle, though.

                I don't know why donkey calf raises went out of style. I know it made me push even harder when my buddy's sweaty nuts were sitting on my back. Mmm.... Good times.

                Skip

                I'm going to pose a question off this as it has been on my mind, although many exercises have similar angles (e.g. Vertical calf press and donkey calf raises) the load is exerted on the muscle differently. In the example I referred to, in one case the load is transferred from the toes down through the body versus from the hips down to the muscle being worked. Can this difference is load placement change the activation pattern of the muscle?

                And if you ever need someone to sit on your back, I'm a phone call away <3
                Be true to yourself and fuel your body with nothing less the highest quality supplements. Only available at TrueNutrition.com Use discount code: KSP945 to save 5% on your order!

                Stickies...just read the damn stickies...

                2014 Xcalibur Cup Bantam Open - 1st
                2014 Tracey Greenwood Classic Bantam Open - 1st
                2015 Beat Cancer!

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                • #9
                  I will keep that in mind. lol

                  The difference is slight. To explain it as simplistic as I can, just look at the pic of the machine and you can tell that if you were lying in it you could basically rotate the entire machine and turn it upside down and it would be a donkey calf raise. The weight is on your feet with the verticle press but the pad is on your back/lowerback so ... it really isn't any different.

                  Skip


                  Facebook: Skip Hill
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by v1hyp View Post
                    No calf equipment? Sounds like its time to change gyms!!
                    TOTALLY! That's exactly why I've done every workout at a different gym for two weeks now. I still haven't found one properly equipped or staffed.
                    I usually train solo and need to regularly hunt for a spotter but every time I find someone, I feel like I have to train them how to spot properly (I'm referring to "trainers" on staff).
                    I like to grind out my last few reps but they always jump the gun and "fly to the rescue."

                    Sorry, if I may, a short rant about my current gym:

                    In addition, it's over-filled with scrawny university students with no clue and just get in the way all the time or just come to use the showers and occasionally stop by the flat bench press and EZ curl station while chatting to their buddies and playing with their cell phones between sets (only one guy is actually working out - the rest are just there to hang out). DBs are NEVER put back with several key sizes missing and BBs are left in the middle of the floor. with plates strewn about at random. (this is a contributing factor to my recently sprained ankle) Sorry, guys...I had to vent...


                    Originally posted by mentalflex View Post
                    I'm going to pose a question off this as it has been on my mind, although many exercises have similar angles (e.g. Vertical calf press and donkey calf raises) the load is exerted on the muscle differently. In the example I referred to, in one case the load is transferred from the toes down through the body versus from the hips down to the muscle being worked. Can this difference is load placement change the activation pattern of the muscle?

                    And if you ever need someone to sit on your back, I'm a phone call away <3
                    MF, if I understand you correctly, the difference lies with whether the body is bearing the load and moving or if the load itself is moving while the body remains stationary. Some other examples would be squats to leg press, pushups to bench press, pull ups to lat pull downs, inverted rows to bent over BB rows, etc.

                    Also, are you only a phone call away from me in China? hey hey! <3<3 :yippee:

                    Originally posted by Ken "Skip" Hill View Post
                    I will keep that in mind. lol

                    The difference is slight. To explain it as simplistic as I can, just look at the pic of the machine and you can tell that if you were lying in it you could basically rotate the entire machine and turn it upside down and it would be a donkey calf raise. The weight is on your feet with the vertical press but the pad is on your back/lower back so ... it really isn't any different.

                    Skip
                    Skip, to follow up with this, do you feel that the difference is so slight that it really doesn't matter in the examples I gave above? I mean, other than that some are able to progress to a much higher load...maybe safety? OR, is it beneficial to utilize these different movements when changes are needed (stalling on progress, for example)?
                    Unless a man undertakes more than he can possibly do, he will never do all he can.

                    Unfathomable progress is the result of consistent, daily steps toward a single goal

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Donkey calf raise alternative??

                      Originally posted by Ken "Skip" Hill View Post
                      I will keep that in mind. lol

                      The difference is slight. To explain it as simplistic as I can, just look at the pic of the machine and you can tell that if you were lying in it you could basically rotate the entire machine and turn it upside down and it would be a donkey calf raise. The weight is on your feet with the verticle press but the pad is on your back/lowerback so ... it really isn't any different.

                      Skip

                      Yes, but in one instance the body is moving through a plane, in the the other the body is stationary.

                      Would this difference allow for the recruitment of muscle fibers differently?


                      Gsop, that is correct...Each movement creates a different force vector on the muscle. I personally believe that changing the angle or direction of the force will activate the muscle differently.

                      The reason I feel that way is from big beyond belief. Leo Costa categorizes exercises based on neuromuscular activation levels (NMA levels). He places movements that move the body freely through a plane and must be controlled by the muscle being trained at a higher NMA level than those where the body is not able to freely move

                      mentalflex
                      ISOM Winner February 2012
                      Last edited by mentalflex; 11-06-2014, 07:46 AM.
                      Be true to yourself and fuel your body with nothing less the highest quality supplements. Only available at TrueNutrition.com Use discount code: KSP945 to save 5% on your order!

                      Stickies...just read the damn stickies...

                      2014 Xcalibur Cup Bantam Open - 1st
                      2014 Tracey Greenwood Classic Bantam Open - 1st
                      2015 Beat Cancer!

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                      • #12
                        I don't buy Leo's ideology, at all. Phil Hernon says the same thing as Leo.

                        It is an angle issue and the angle is damn near the same.

                        I feel this is yet another situation where someone like Leo complicates a very simple concept. How a muscle could possibly know whether it was moving a weight or the body (or both) is beyond me.

                        Skip


                        Facebook: Skip Hill
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                        Use discount code "SKIP" and get your TEAM SKIP protein here: www.TrueNutrition.com/TEAMSKIPblend

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ken "Skip" Hill View Post
                          I don't buy Leo's ideology, at all. Phil Hernon says the same thing as Leo.

                          It is an angle issue and the angle is damn near the same.

                          I feel this is yet another situation where someone like Leo complicates a very simple concept. How a muscle could possibly know whether it was moving a weight or the body (or both) is beyond me.

                          Skip
                          True...

                          I once asked Phil about BBB and he went off about how all the ideas were his and Leo didn't include him as an author... I touched a soft spot lol

                          Anyway, thanks Skip
                          Be true to yourself and fuel your body with nothing less the highest quality supplements. Only available at TrueNutrition.com Use discount code: KSP945 to save 5% on your order!

                          Stickies...just read the damn stickies...

                          2014 Xcalibur Cup Bantam Open - 1st
                          2014 Tracey Greenwood Classic Bantam Open - 1st
                          2015 Beat Cancer!

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                          • #14
                            Thanks for all the input, Skip and MF! This has been WAY more informative than just answering the original Q.

                            So...If I get ya, Skip...basically you're saying it's a big case of analysis paralysis/overthinking?
                            In this case, angle is most important - plain and simple and if it's identical or nearly so between two methods, they can be used interchangeably.
                            So, squats and (some) leg press machines work the target muscles the same way and are just as effective.
                            Correct?
                            The key words there being "target muscles" and not "whole body."


                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                            Unless a man undertakes more than he can possibly do, he will never do all he can.

                            Unfathomable progress is the result of consistent, daily steps toward a single goal

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by gsop_3 View Post
                              Thanks for all the input, Skip and MF! This has been WAY more informative than just answering the original Q.

                              So...If I get ya, Skip...basically you're saying it's a big case of analysis paralysis/overthinking?
                              In this case, angle is most important - plain and simple and if it's identical or nearly so between two methods, they can be used interchangeably.
                              So, squats and (some) leg press machines work the target muscles the same way and are just as effective.
                              Correct?
                              The key words there being "target muscles" and not "whole body."


                              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                              I would say squats and leg presses are a little different. The stabilization of your body with squats theoretically would activate more fibers to keep the body from going too far forward or backward...

                              I think the best way to look at it is, how much stabilization is required as you exert force. Now I am not saying stabilization is the only factor to activate more fibers, as the load used and how close you get to failure matter in terms of fiber recruitment and the pattern they are recruited. Example, I don't see a lot of people building mass doing bosu squats because they are not using a heavy enough load to create sufficient mechanical tension, muscular damage or metabolic stress.
                              Be true to yourself and fuel your body with nothing less the highest quality supplements. Only available at TrueNutrition.com Use discount code: KSP945 to save 5% on your order!

                              Stickies...just read the damn stickies...

                              2014 Xcalibur Cup Bantam Open - 1st
                              2014 Tracey Greenwood Classic Bantam Open - 1st
                              2015 Beat Cancer!

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