delayed water retention?

[jwy5034 New Member Find all posts View Profile Close jwy5034]

I did a huge skipload without drinking much water and looked amazing the next day (dry and full). However, another day later I looked small, flat, and smooth. Is this because I resumed my regular water intake? Also, should I be trying to get in fluids during the load or keep it to a minimum (dry load)?

[Ihaanator New Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ihaanator]

Drink lot of water during the load.

[phoenix13 OG Mod of all Mods Find all posts View Profile Close phoenix13]

Are you loading to peak for a contest/shoot or as a refeed?

[Tonysok New Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tonysok]

Same here when I skipload since I don't drink all that much being that I want to pack in the carbs. I look good the next day then no so much after consuming water.

I think I'll like to give sh*tloading a try next time. What's the best way to dry out before a sh*tload inorder for the load to pull water from subcutaneous layer?

[phoenix13 OG Mod of all Mods Find all posts View Profile Close phoenix13]

The "best" way will depend on what your diet looks like the days (even weeks) prior to the load, and how extreme you want to be with the drying out.

[Tonysok New Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tonysok]

The "best" way will depend on what your diet looks like the days (even weeks) prior to the load, and how extreme you want to be with the drying out.

I've been on a low carb diet while dieting down similar to CKD, but I kept my carb intake around 100g give or take, but since I wanted to do a sh*tload trail run come this Saturday its been no higher then 50g the pass 3 days and I don't foresee my macro nutrient changing. See below.

BW - 170lbs
2200 calories: 135g fats / 48g carbs / 182g protein

I've also upped my water intake from 5 liters to about 8 liters.

Would there be anything else I can do to ensure I come out dry before my load? aside from increasing water and lowering carbs.

Thanks, Tony

[Tonysok New Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tonysok]

How extreme can one get to drying out?

My plan was to deplete Friday and continue to drink water until bed time. Come Saturday morning is where I would start the sh*tload with no water, so I can track my progress eating every hour or so.

Thanks in advance.

[Kingie New Member Find all posts View Profile Close Kingie]

Tonysok, 8l of water a day? Is that common around here... That seems like an almost dangerous amount of water to be drinking. Someone educate me on why is is or isn't please

[homonunculus Super Moderator/Round Table Expert Find all posts View Profile Close homonunculus]

Tonysok, 8l of water a day? Is that common around here... That seems like an almost dangerous amount of water to be drinking. Someone educate me on why is is or isn't please

1. Noakes, T.D., et al., Peak rates of diuresis in healthy humans during oral fluid overload. S Afr Med J, 2001. 91(10): p. 852-7. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=11732457

OBJECTIVE: To determine whether rates of intestinal fluid absorption and renal diuresis can match high rates of fluid ingestion in healthy humans exposed to oral fluid overload, thereby preventing the development of hyponatraemia either by reverse sodium movement across the intestine (the Priestley-Haldane effect) or by expansion of the extracellular fluid volume. METHODS: Changes in renal function and in plasma chemical measurements in response to an oral fluid overload (0.9-1.8 l/h x 3 h) were investigated in 6 healthy control subjects at rest, and in a subject with a history of exercise-induced symptomatic hyponatraemia, during both prolonged (160-minute) exercise and at rest. FINDINGS: All control subjects gained weight (2.7 +/- 0.2 kg, mean +/- standard error of mean (SEM)) because the rate of oral fluid intake exceeded the peak rate of urine production (778 +/- 39 ml/h). Blood volume rose by 7.1 (+/- 0.5)% and plasma sodium concentrations fell progressively from 144 +/- 2.6 to 136 +/- 1.1 mmol/l (P < 0.05) in the control subjects. Plasma potassium and angiotensin II concentrations were unchanged and creatinine clearance was normal (approximately 125 ml/min). Free water clearance reached a maximum of 11.2 +/- 0.9 ml/min after 2 hours. The increase in body mass could be accounted for by calculated or measured changes in extra- and intracellular fluid volumes. Similar changes were measured in the subject with a previous history of symptomatic hyponatraemia. CONCLUSION: The rate of intestinal fluid absorption appeared to match the rate of oral fluid ingestion and there was no evidence of fluid accumulation in the intestine with reverse sodium movement from the extracellular space into intestinal fluid. The results of this study are therefore at variance with the Priestley-Haldane hypothesis and suggest that reverse sodium movement did not contribute to the hyponatraemia induced by oral fluid overload in these subjects. Rather it appears that humans may have a limited capacity to excrete fluid at rates in excess of approximately 900 ml/h in response to higher rates of oral fluid intake. When the rate of intestinal fluid absorption matches the rate of fluid ingestion and exceeds the kidneys' maximum capacity for fluid excretion, the excess fluid accumulates in the extra- and intracellular fluid compartments, inducing the dilutional hyponatraemia of water intoxication. These findings may have relevance to other clinical conditions in which hyponatraemia develops in response to high rates of oral or intravenous fluid provision.


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-S

[phoenix13 OG Mod of all Mods Find all posts View Profile Close phoenix13]

This is assuming water cut off Friday p.m., load Saturday a.m. which is what I get from your posts. What I would do: keep water high until cut off. Possibly taking in slightly more water on Friday. Friday reduce sodium intake. If you've been salting/seasoning your food, just stop and watch out for condiments, sodas etc. You can add Vit C, green tea, dandelion root, asparagus Friday. You should be peeing like a racehorse (possibly cramping though as well, so consider having some taurine on hand). Saturday wake up and eat.

(The only thing I personally would do differently is add some clean, low sodium carbs after water cutoff late Fri)

It varies person to person due to how lean you already are and how your body responds to this, but I consider this "extreme" enough for bbing level peaking.

[Tonysok New Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tonysok]

This is assuming water cut off Friday p.m., load Saturday a.m. which is what I get from your posts. What I would do: keep water high until cut off. Possibly taking in slightly more water on Friday. Friday reduce sodium intake. If you've been salting/seasoning your food, just stop and watch out for condiments, sodas etc. You can add Vit C, green tea, dandelion root, asparagus Friday. You should be peeing like a racehorse (possibly cramping though as well, so consider having some taurine on hand). Saturday wake up and eat.

(The only thing I personally would do differently is add some clean, low sodium carbs after water cutoff late Fri)

It varies person to person due to how lean you already are and how your body responds to this, but I consider this "extreme" enough for bbing level peaking.

I've been salting my eggs and veggies to taste, but nothing drastically. I'll make sure to remove them on Friday.

What's the reason for reducing sodium the day prior to the day, if we're going to be eating sodium rich food the following morning?

I train in the evening after work, so I'll most likely get one meal in w/ water and cut it off then. You mention you'd personally like to have some clean carb after water cut off, is there a reason behide this? and lastly what are the sources you use? i.e. white rice, salt-free ricecake

Thanks for all the useful information.

Tony

[phoenix13 OG Mod of all Mods Find all posts View Profile Close phoenix13]

What's the reason for reducing sodium the day prior to the day, if we're going to be eating sodium rich food the following morning?

I'll give you my non-scientific version. By both increasing water and decreasing sodium, you are creating a more dramatic natural diuretic effect. Your body wants to keep its sodium concentration at a certain level. You are creating a scenario where it starts excreting water to regain that balance, which typically lasts long enough for you to finish your protocol for peaking. The other side of this feedback loop is when you reintroduce water regular intake, and your body holds onto it temporarily (such as when you spill over the day or couple days after peaking). You need sodium for muscle fullness, so this is something you don't want to over-do (it's also why you will be having sodium the following morning).

I train in the evening after work, so I'll most likely get one meal in w/ water and cut it off then. You mention you'd personally like to have some clean carb after water cut off, is there a reason behide this? and lastly what are the sources you use? i.e. white rice, salt-free ricecake

Thanks for all the useful information.

Tony

I would have no sodium carbs after water is cut off because usually by this point in my protocol, I am needing more carbs in general and more time to get them to convert to glycogen to be full for the window in which I want to peak. If you are not as carb depleted, you may not need those p.m. carbs. You want them to be low sodium in order to make your body continue to excrete water (see what I wrote above). Save the sodium for at least 8 hrs after dropping water.

I mostly use things I've used on my refeeds up to that point because I'll have a good idea of if my body likes it. Low sodium: rice cakes, jelly, sweet potato. Sh*t: cake, cookies, chex mix, poptarts, anything that catches my eye and looks tasty.

This is my current preference for drying out/loading. It's derived from public posts by homon, Skip and Matt Porter, and personal experimentation. I want to give them credit. There's lots of ways to skin this cat. If you do this, let me know how it works for you.

[Kingie New Member Find all posts View Profile Close Kingie]

Cheers homonunculus

[Tonysok New Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tonysok]

I will definitely give this a run this weekend and let you know the outcome.

I did a huge skipload without drinking much water and looked amazing the next day (dry and full). However, another day later I looked small, flat, and smooth. Is this because I resumed my regular water intake? Also, should I be trying to get in fluids during the load or keep it to a minimum (dry load)?

Jwy5034, I want to apologize for hijacking your post.

[Tonysok New Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tonysok]

Well I ran the sh*tload, but I wasn't patience enough so it essentially became a skipload toward the end. I didn't load the night before after cutting water but instead started Saturday morning upon waking up with donuts. Maybe I wasn't lean or dry enough, see pics. I looked to be smoothing out around noon, that's when I just decided to kick it and switch over to skiploading. I'll test it again, but this time I will load on some clean carb the night before.