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  • Peri-sleep shake?

    Hi all

    I know this may sound odd - but do any of you employ a peri-sleep shake/nutrition protocol?

    I'm currently trying to put on size - , together with a few stomach/digestion issues - I am not putting on any weight at all

    I was thinking - to help get the calories in - and stay anabolic while sleeping making a massive shake, around 60-70 grams protein, tblspoon of oil or some raw milk - for extra calories

    I would then start drinking as I go to bed -and sip on it when I go to the toilet (usually 2-3 times each night) and finish it when I wake up

    I've tried eating whole food when I wake up to go to the toilet - but when I eventually get up, I find that I have stomach discomfort / bloating - most likely as the food has not completely digested

    Also - I train first thing in the morning (5:30am)

  • #2
    I like to add some psyllium husk to my shakes to keep things moving.
    Your shake idea seems like a good one. I think homon has discussed a similar shake on several occasions if you do a search
    SAVE 5-10% @ TRUENUTRITION.com Use code: LG100

    - Success is the best revenge

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    • #3
      Originally posted by wannagetbig View Post
      Hi all

      I know this may sound odd - but do any of you employ a peri-sleep shake/nutrition protocol?

      I'm currently trying to put on size - , together with a few stomach/digestion issues - I am not putting on any weight at all

      I was thinking - to help get the calories in - and stay anabolic while sleeping making a massive shake, around 60-70 grams protein, tblspoon of oil or some raw milk - for extra calories

      I would then start drinking as I go to bed -and sip on it when I go to the toilet (usually 2-3 times each night) and finish it when I wake up

      I've tried eating whole food when I wake up to go to the toilet - but when I eventually get up, I find that I have stomach discomfort / bloating - most likely as the food has not completely digested

      Also - I train first thing in the morning (5:30am)
      Originally posted by LG1 View Post
      I like to add some psyllium husk to my shakes to keep things moving.
      Your shake idea seems like a good one. I think homon has discussed a similar shake on several occasions if you do a search
      Yep!

      This article was / is actually about that notion, but the title was changed (not my call) such that you can't tell easily.

      http://articles.elitefts.com/trainin...really-matter/

      -S
      The Book Has Arrived!
      The Book Has Arrived!

      Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


      www.TrueNutrition.com

      2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
      2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
      2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

      Comment


      • #4
        I think a peri-sleep shake is obsessively over-the-top and I would be doing everything in my power to getting better sleep. Waking up 2-3 times a night to use the washroom is bad. I've had that happen before and it's awful. That inconsistency in sleep is probably hurting your gains more than you'd think.

        Comment


        • #5
          As I train late usually the big drink you are thinking of making is just over my normal night time drink add some coconut and a raw egg. I have this just prior to going to sleep - say 10-10:30pm. I am up around 5-6am most days.

          I have nuts and veg with it and all my vitamins, D3, fish oil tablets. (eaten on the side and not blended in.)

          My main focus is all my carbs and most of my energy around my workouts and as I train late this works well.

          I might add that I usually get only 1 call of nature at most during the night but the morning call is very strong.
          "Be gentle in what you do, firm in how you do it."
          Buck Brannaman.

          "It is the certainty of punishment that deters crime, not the severity of it."
          'Hanging' Judge PARKER

          "Nothing is so powerful as an insight into human nature... what compulsions drive a man, what instincts dominate his action... if you know these things about a man you can touch him at the core of his being."
          ~William Bernbach

          Comment


          • #6
            I had a shske made and waiting for me in the middle of the nite years ago....I did it for months. I found that my sleep patterns seemed very disrupted just knowing that I had a shake to drink. I've made out better thru the years trying to get the best quality sleep possible. Never underestimate the value of good, deep sleep. Once you start having issues sleeping later in life you'll come to appreciate the good sleep you've had....
            STEEL




            "SIMPLICITY, CONSISTENCY, INTENSITY"

            Comment


            • #7
              For the record, I'd never suggest (and I've had this conversation with clients hundreds of times), waking to intentionally have a shake or continuing to have one when someone feels it is impairing sleep quality. Even eating too much before bed can cause issues.

              There are times when the overall effect of having a large amount of food can cause issues and there is obviously a trade off between the extra 1000+ kcal during the day and sleep quality such that gains would likely be better in the scenario whereby sleep quality were not altered. Thus, part of the game extreme bodybuilding becomes *optimizing* recovery within the parameters of what a person is willing to do, put up with in the context of one's overall lifestyle and balance of priorities.

              -S
              The Book Has Arrived!
              The Book Has Arrived!

              Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


              www.TrueNutrition.com

              2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
              2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
              2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

              Comment


              • #8
                I have one, now. I have trouble getting enough protein in during the day, and I get up to pee, as a conservative estimate, 14 trillion times during the night, so I just have one waiting for me in the bathroom. It doesn't interrupt my sleep at all to shake it up, chug it, then go back to bed.
                Ph.D., Theoretical Physics '16
                kind of a douche

                Comment


                • #9
                  Excessive urination is common amongst people who practice a bodybuilding lifestyle due to the increased fluid intake, but some of these accounts sound like a great cause for concern. I personally had blood work done when I suffered from it and also monitored its causes based on anything I did throughout the day. To simply shrug it off is a bad idea. And if it happens to be a result of a large fluid intake and protein consumption; unless you're a national or professional level competitor whose income is dependent on their success, is all of this even worth it? Even then I don't think it is.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by FRANK_KOVACIC View Post
                    Excessive urination is common amongst people who practice a bodybuilding lifestyle due to the increased fluid intake, but some of these accounts sound like a great cause for concern. I personally had blood work done when I suffered from it and also monitored its causes based on anything I did throughout the day. To simply shrug it off is a bad idea. And if it happens to be a result of a large fluid intake and protein consumption; unless you're a national or professional level competitor whose income is dependent on their success, is all of this even worth it? Even then I don't think it is.
                    Frank,

                    I'd be interested in hearing more about the particular blood work you had and associations with nocturia.

                    In particular, what are your thoughts on the dangers of "large" protein intake and accompanying fluid consumption?

                    -S
                    The Book Has Arrived!
                    The Book Has Arrived!

                    Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


                    www.TrueNutrition.com

                    2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
                    2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
                    2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by homonunculus View Post
                      Frank,

                      I'd be interested in hearing more about the particular blood work you had and associations with nocturia.

                      In particular, what are your thoughts on the dangers of "large" protein intake and accompanying fluid consumption?

                      -S
                      I raised the issue with my doctor who recommended I have blood work done and I requested that everything on the form be checked off to be tested. As there are many causes for frequent urination such as diabetes, anxiety, cystitis, UTI's, prostatitis, thyroid, retrograde ejaculation, sexual exhaustion, over masturbation, fluid intake, medication with diuretic properties etc. I think it's important to identify the issue.

                      Is a large protein intake and fluid consumption dangerous? I'm not educated enough to make that call. I do know that too much of anything (overuse) is not good. There may not be any immediate detriment to the bladder, kidneys, and urethra going so frequently, but over time there may be. That's just my speculation. I know that the more fluid that goes in, the more (frequently) that comes out and that any protein not utilized by the body is flushed out. It becomes more of an issue of a lifestyle inconvenience. I don't want to go see a 2 hour movie at the theater and have to get up to pee multiple times. I also value my sleep and the importance of recharging. Having said that, if someone's schedule is hectic enough that they only really have a 6 hour window to sleep and they're waking up 2+ times during that time; they're never getting adequate rest, which can impair function and health.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Scott, what's your thoughts about having constantly elevated levels of insulin for health and staying lean? Without purposely fasting isn't the fast during your sleeping hours healthy. Do you think any type of hormonal cycle, or any sort of recuperative process would be interrupted by doing peri sleep shakes?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by FRANK_KOVACIC View Post
                          I raised the issue with my doctor who recommended I have blood work done and I requested that everything on the form be checked off to be tested. As there are many causes for frequent urination such as diabetes, anxiety, cystitis, UTI's, prostatitis, thyroid, retrograde ejaculation, sexual exhaustion, over masturbation, fluid intake, medication with diuretic properties etc. I think it's important to identify the issue.
                          If you're willing to share, what were your specific biochemical or pathological associations with nocturia?

                          What did you change to remedy it?... Or what changed when it went away?...

                          Is a large protein intake and fluid consumption dangerous? I'm not educated enough to make that call. I do know that too much of anything (overuse) is not good. There may not be any immediate detriment to the bladder, kidneys, and urethra going so frequently, but over time there may be. That's just my speculation. I know that the more fluid that goes in, the more (frequently) that comes out and that any protein not utilized by the body is flushed out. It becomes more of an issue of a lifestyle inconvenience. I don't want to go see a 2 hour movie at the theater and have to get up to pee multiple times. I also value my sleep and the importance of recharging. Having said that, if someone's schedule is hectic enough that they only really have a 6 hour window to sleep and they're waking up 2+ times during that time; they're never getting adequate rest, which can impair function and health.
                          A few important things here.

                          -The evidence that high protein intake is harmful to the kidneys is lacking.

                          -Proteinuria is generally considered to be a sign of renal disease, but in healthy kidneys, this is NOT a major means of disposing of unutilized protein. That protein which is absorbed (depending on bioavailability) has many fates, but loss as proteins in the urine is not a significant one in when the renal filtration system is working as it should.

                          -The issue is DEFINITELY about not disrupting sleep or reducing sleep quality, but the requirement for sleep duration does vary. (E.g., http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/...jc.2002-020827) Here's an interesting study (I can send you the full one if you want) where simply waking to pee was not the only factor in quality of life: (rating of) how waking affected sleep quality as well as duration of sleep both impacted quality of life. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16566966

                          So, I do believe that there can be individuals (I have worked with them) who wake, can have a shake and don't report any affect on recovery or sleep quality. OTOH, if someone wakes frequently to pee, feels this impairs sleep quality (obviously can't get back to sleep) or can tell that having a shake causes sleep issues, it's a no, no in my book.

                          -S
                          The Book Has Arrived!
                          The Book Has Arrived!

                          Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


                          www.TrueNutrition.com

                          2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
                          2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
                          2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by FRANK_KOVACIC View Post
                            As there are many causes for frequent urination such as ...sexual exhaustion, over masturbation...
                            Ph.D., Theoretical Physics '16
                            kind of a douche

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by homonunculus View Post
                              If you're willing to share, what were your specific biochemical or pathological associations with nocturia?

                              What did you change to remedy it?... Or what changed when it went away?...
                              I do not wish to share my causes in a public forum. Mine was not just nocturia, but also throughout the day. I will say that I made the necessary lifestyle changes to remedy it and when it was gone I was certainly much happier. Given the amount of causes, you can imagine how that would cause a person to suffer anxiety and worry, contributing to the problem even further.


                              Originally posted by homonunculus View Post
                              A few important things here.

                              -The evidence that high protein intake is harmful to the kidneys is lacking.

                              -Proteinuria is generally considered to be a sign of renal disease, but in healthy kidneys, this is NOT a major means of disposing of unutilized protein. That protein which is absorbed (depending on bioavailability) has many fates, but loss as proteins in the urine is not a significant one in when the renal filtration system is working as it should.

                              -The issue is DEFINITELY about not disrupting sleep or reducing sleep quality, but the requirement for sleep duration does vary. (E.g., http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/...jc.2002-020827) Here's an interesting study (I can send you the full one if you want) where simply waking to pee was not the only factor in quality of life: (rating of) how waking affected sleep quality as well as duration of sleep both impacted quality of life. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16566966

                              So, I do believe that there can be individuals (I have worked with them) who wake, can have a shake and don't report any affect on recovery or sleep quality. OTOH, if someone wakes frequently to pee, feels this impairs sleep quality (obviously can't get back to sleep) or can tell that having a shake causes sleep issues, it's a no, no in my book.

                              -S
                              That's rather interesting; anomalies. For me, consecutive sleep is much more beneficial and important to my everyday function. When interspersed, my energy, mood, etc is impacted negatively. And again, the sheer hassle of waking up frequently or even going frequently during the day is tiresome. I'm someone that can't fall back to sleep right away as well. But even those that you mentioned where waking up has no ill effect; I can't speak for them, but I think they'd rather not.

                              Sammich, given your comment above; if you could choose between waking up the multiple times or sleeping right through, would you opt for the latter?

                              Originally posted by Sammich View Post

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