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  • Ketones...Please tell me about them...

    There is a lot of literature out there regarding ketosis and diabetics. However ketones and weight training information seems limited.

    As I lean out and drop more weight (I'm at a 20 year body weight low and probably have not ever been this lean and muscular) I'm finding that towards the end of my workouts (especially at the end of the week as I deplete) I may be going into what MIGHT be ketosis. Some of these symptoms are not too cool.

    Can you guys that compete, get ripped, and/or diet down share more information with me please?

    THANKS!!

  • #2
    That's quite a large question, What exactly are you wanting to know about them?

    I suspect you are wondering about the signs of entering ketosis... The main symptoms many experience are head aches, "brain fog" (basically just not being as sharp/fast and having trouble concentrating) and pretty severe lethargy. This passes rather quickly IF you stick to a low carb diet for multi-week stretches.

    Are you low carbing right now? Getting into actual ketosis can take a while of strict, near-zero carb dieting at first (some say days, some say go 2-3 weeks to REALLY get into it before you introduce a carb refeed, otherwise you swing back and forth and never adapt). If not low carbs (under 50g, certainly 100g at the absolute MOST for many days in a row), you are not going into ketosis.

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    • #3
      I'm taking in around 150 g of carbs a day with a Skipload on Saturday.
      I've had the brainfog along with blurry vision and fatigue. The thing that caught my attention today was the "fingernail polish remover" smell.

      Just exploring some possibilities. Thanks for the response.:-)

      Comment


      • #4
        With my initial jump into fitness starting at a fat 30% 235-240lbs. (Never touched a weight other than the 3 months required in PE class in highschool.)

        I researched a TKD diet that puts you into ketosis all week with some refeeds here and there usually every 10-14 days. I pissed on litmus paper sticks called KetoSticks from the diabetic isle at Wal-Mart and ate nothing but a pro/fat diet and did cardio.. get this RUNNING IN PLACE watching netflix for 2 episodes lol.. from 235-240 to 160lbs in about 5 months total. I did not become diabetic and its supposedly is just the state where your body changes chemically to burn fat more efficiently as a fuel source since you are getting barely any carbs in throughout the week.

        I don't think there is anything to worry about your probably just depleted and your diet low in carbs? If anything pick up some ketosticks to see if you really are in ketosis and it is possible you are.

        Overall I thought it was a great way to diet for me. I am not sure if it is effective for competing but I hear Dave Palumbo may have some of his guys doing a version of TKD but who knows!?

        Search TKD and CKD diets and information for more information as far as a bodybuilding or athletic view other than diabetes patients. Might want to check out articles from Dave Palumbo on the matter.. I dunno!?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by dice77 View Post
          I'm taking in around 150 g of carbs a day with a Skipload on Saturday.
          I've had the brainfog along with blurry vision and fatigue. The thing that caught my attention today was the "fingernail polish remover" smell.

          Just exploring some possibilities. Thanks for the response.:-)
          Pick up ketosticks man.. with 150g of carbs per day and a skipload I doubt you are in ketosis.

          Are your calories very low and your body may just be exhausted? You might need to take a week off or two. But I'd wait till the experts chime in ie.. Skip, Humon, and Matt (or who ever else i'm missing).

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          • #6
            Originally posted by 13B-T View Post
            Pick up ketosticks man.. with 150g of carbs per day and a skipload I doubt you are in ketosis.

            Are your calories very low and your body may just be exhausted? You might need to take a week off or two. But I'd wait till the experts chime in ie.. Skip, Humon, and Matt (or who ever else i'm missing).
            Cals are around 2200-2400 a day. All clean
            300 g protein
            150 g carbs
            60ish fats

            Yeah....hoping those guys would chime in

            Thanks for the suggestion. I'll pick those up and give it a try when I feel/smell funky

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            • #7
              That curious, the acetone smell is generally a pretty good indicator that ketones are being made in the body and excreted through your breath. If this is towards the end of the week and carbs have been low(er) for many days I say its a good sign you are at least making them.

              I suspect you are jumping in-and-out of it too frequently at this point for you body to really get used to being low carb, and you are basically "re-adapting" every week, thus having the symptoms every week. If you are not following the recommendations of a coach and not competing on a specific day, I would say wait 2-3 weeks before skiploading again, drop carbs down a bit lower (increase fats to make up for the cals)

              This will allow your body to adapt and you wont get all wonky every week

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              • #8
                Are you counting fiber in your carb intake?
                6/22/13 - 2013 NPC VICTORY CLASSIC
                1st - Novice Men's Lightheavy & Novice overall

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by LKQSJH View Post
                  Are you counting fiber in your carb intake?
                  I use Psyllium husks first thing in the morning but not counting them in my carb intake.

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                  • #10
                    I've done keto before and I'm on about same kcals as you sitting at 200lbs and give or take 10% bf. Only carbs Sunday skipload and post workout 60g carbs 3x a week mon-weds-fri. No symptoms of ketosis. So everyone is different.

                    Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Lonnie123 View Post
                      That curious, the acetone smell is generally a pretty good indicator that ketones are being made in the body and excreted through your breath. If this is towards the end of the week and carbs have been low(er) for many days I say its a good sign you are at least making them.

                      I suspect you are jumping in-and-out of it too frequently at this point for you body to really get used to being low carb, and you are basically "re-adapting" every week, thus having the symptoms every week. If you are not following the recommendations of a coach and not competing on a specific day, I would say wait 2-3 weeks before skiploading again, drop carbs down a bit lower (increase fats to make up for the cals)

                      This will allow your body to adapt and you wont get all wonky every week
                      The re-adapting every week is what I was thinking. Not quite in ketosis (which I'm not looking to go Keto) but producing Ketones and having some Ketosis symptoms. Makes sense.

                      Thank you!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 13B-T View Post
                        I've done keto before and I'm on about same kcals as you sitting at 200lbs and give or take 10% bf. Only carbs Sunday skipload and post workout 60g carbs 3x a week mon-weds-fri. No symptoms of ketosis. So everyone is different.

                        Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk
                        Definitely getting the sticks and next time things get funky I'll give the test a shot. Can't hurt:-)

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                        • #13
                          I will get in here.

                          I think you are smelling ammonia. This is simply the by-product of using protein as a fuel source. This does not automatically mean you are in ketosis, no. You can have an ample supply of carbs but if you might not have those carbs prior to your training session, you would still get the ammonia smell when you sweat. I do and have for quite some time as I don't believe in taking in a lot of carbs just prior to training. Glycogen is still the fuel of choice, hence the pump, but you are burning through protein while you train if your fat intake and carb intake isn't high enough especially prior to training.

                          Bottom line is if you are in a surplus of calories and aren't trying to lean down, you won't have that ammonia smell to your sweat.

                          Add: I have even noticed over the years that longer duration training (higher volume) will produce more of an ammonia smell than shorter, higher intensity training will.

                          Skip


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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ken "Skip" Hill View Post
                            I will get in here.

                            I think you are smelling ammonia. This is simply the by-product of using protein as a fuel source. This does not automatically mean you are in ketosis, no. You can have an ample supply of carbs but if you might not have those carbs prior to your training session, you would still get the ammonia smell when you sweat. I do and have for quite some time as I don't believe in taking in a lot of carbs just prior to training. Glycogen is still the fuel of choice, hence the pump, but you are burning through protein while you train if your fat intake and carb intake isn't high enough especially prior to training.

                            Bottom line is if you are in a surplus of calories and aren't trying to lean down, you won't have that ammonia smell to your sweat.

                            Add: I have even noticed over the years that longer duration training (higher volume) will produce more of an ammonia smell than shorter, higher intensity training will.

                            Skip
                            Thamks for the info!
                            It seems that as I get leaner, this gets worse. Is that because I have less body fat available for fuel?
                            The macros I was taking prior to training seemed fine for a while but once my body weight lowered to a certain point the smell and foggyness seems to occur more.

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