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  • Volume Question - Hoping Skip will chime in.

    Been doing low a volume routine, 2 way split, to failure each set for years. This is the only program I have ever had success with, mainly because its the only program that I ate enough to grow on.

    I am 52 now, so I'm not looking to add much size anymore. I have been doing more (as in some) cardio for my health and to shrink my gut. I have dropped 5lbs recently down to 210 lbs at 5' 8".

    I feel, I have stalled on my current program. So, my question is how do I progress by adding volume and not reaching failure on my sets. I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea of progression with out going to failure.

    I want to go to a 3 way split, maybe push/ pull + legs? I know its a cliche, but old people hate change.

  • #2
    You can still go to failure but only do it on X amount of sets per exercise. I go to failure for every set but you could just do the last set for each exercise or the last 2 sets.

    Skip

    Sent from Skip's Samsung Note 2


    Facebook: Skip Hill
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    • #3
      Thanks for finally responding.

      When I go to failure, usually I can get the same reps for a couple of sets then my reps start dropping off. So instead of 5x10, I would get 10, 10, 8, 7, 7. Or would I be better dropping my weights to get 5x10?
      46er
      Lightweight Member
      Last edited by 46er; 04-12-2014, 01:19 PM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by 46er View Post
        Thanks for finally responding.
        He responded in about five minutes.. Can't ask for anything better than that!

        Good luck with your fat loss, just remember you'll be doing the most important work in the kitchen
        :preach:

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        • #5
          Try pairing up sets - superset fashion, but pairing agonist / antagonist groupings. For example rows with bench press, pull ups with shoulder press.
          Monitor your rest intervals - this will give you a sense of your density - volume of work per unit time.
          Training density is an often over looked but very impactful variable that can be manipulated to help move you towards your goals.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by liftweights View Post
            He responded in about five minutes.. Can't ask for anything better than that!

            Good luck with your fat loss, just remember you'll be doing the most important work in the kitchen
            That was sarcasism.

            Yeah, finally getting diet through my thick head. I have eliminated wheat as much as reasonably possible. Also making better carb choices, based on glycemic index. The 5lbs I lost feels like much more (feel less bloated).

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            • #7
              Originally posted by 46er View Post

              When I go to failure, usually I can get the same reps for a couple of sets then my reps start dropping off. So instead of 5x10, I would get 10, 10, 8, 7, 7. Or would I be better dropping my weights to get 5x10?
              Do both. Just try to progress every workout.

              As mentioned above, time your rest time between sets. Currently I am using 1 minute rests between sets on probably 90% of my exercises. Took a while to adjust and had to get used to using lighter weights BUT my joints are happier and I have been able to increase almost every workout.

              Make sure the diet is in check as well. Once Skip got me straightened out everything else fell in place.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by 46er View Post
                Been doing low a volume routine, 2 way split, to failure each set for years. This is the only program I have ever had success with, mainly because its the only program that I ate enough to grow on.

                I am 52 now, so I'm not looking to add much size anymore. I have been doing more (as in some) cardio for my health and to shrink my gut. I have dropped 5lbs recently down to 210 lbs at 5' 8".

                I feel, I have stalled on my current program. So, my question is [B]how do I progress by adding volume and not reaching failure on my sets. I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea of progression with out going to failure.

                I want to go to a 3 way split, maybe push/ pull + legs? I know its a cliche, but old people hate change.
                If your goal is to drop fat and retain muscle, I'd not increase your wt. training volume or reduce set "intensity" (by not going to failure) at all.

                Dance with the one who brung ya.

                -S
                The Book Has Arrived!
                The Book Has Arrived!

                Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


                www.TrueNutrition.com

                2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
                2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
                2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

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                • #9
                  Thanks for all the replies.

                  OK Scott, I think I will try a 3 way split to failure each set to failure, low volume. I will try to shorten rest periods between sets, they seem to get longer as I age.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 46er View Post
                    Thanks for all the replies.

                    OK Scott, I think I will try a 3 way split to failure each set to failure, low volume. I will try to shorten rest periods between sets, they seem to get longer as I age.
                    I would not do that either, actually.

                    If you want to maintain the muscle you build with living heavy with an abbreviated volume approach, then lifting heavy is the best way to do that. Shortened rest intervals will mean lighter loads.


                    IMO, the point of the weight training workouts is not to expend energy to create a caloric deficit for fat loss. It's to maintain the hypertrophic stimulus to keep the muscle mass you've gained. Diet and cardio are the means of the fat loss.

                    You might need a three way split b/c your recovery is impaired during the diet, however, but shifting your weight training every so slightly towards a cardio based session (and still doing the same # of sets or even a few more) won't mean much for calories expenditure, but it could mean a lot toward the loading you provide when lifting.

                    -S
                    The Book Has Arrived!
                    The Book Has Arrived!

                    Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


                    www.TrueNutrition.com

                    2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
                    2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
                    2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

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                    • #11
                      Thanks Scott, appreciate the feedback. Anything you have to offer on IM, I'm all ears. I was actually able to comprehend all of that, usually half of what you post is over my head. Haha.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 46er View Post
                        Thanks Scott, appreciate the feedback. Anything you have to offer on IM, I'm all ears. I was actually able to comprehend all of that, usually half of what you post is over my head. Haha.
                        I'm working on that. Getting frequent reminders.

                        Glad I could help!

                        -S

                        P.S. I often have clients take LONGER rest intervals (but not too long) so they can keep lifting the heavy weights.
                        The Book Has Arrived!
                        The Book Has Arrived!

                        Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


                        www.TrueNutrition.com

                        2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
                        2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
                        2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Scott what's your thoughts on straight sets not going to failure on each. An example is using a DC split, but instead of doing 1 RP you do 3 straight sets, keeping the weight the same, and a 90 second rest between sets. Goal is to hit failure on the last rep of 3rd set. Once you get 3x10 increase weight, say you only get x10, x10,x8 you keep the weight the same. DC has burned the idea of all out sets, killing your body, pushing it to its absolute limits, doing anything less seems less productive. Also do you think its productive to switch from a DC type routine to a volume type routine once In a while. Reason being giving your body something completely differnt to respond to, and trying to achieve hypertrophy from a differnt approach

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by homonunculus View Post

                            P.S. I often have clients take LONGER rest intervals (but not too long) so they can keep lifting the heavy weights.
                            Dr. Scott,
                            Someone is looking to lose fat and maintain/gain muscle

                            Let's say barbell curls: 5 sets of same weight. Near to total failure last set. Sets 3 and 4 are tough but not failure. You would prefer:

                            5x8 (2 min rest between sets)

                            Vs

                            5x8 (1 min rest between sets) WITH a slightly lighter weight?

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                            • #15
                              This is a good thread.

                              You really have to be careful when you up your volume so that you are still able to recover from workouts and especially during a calorie-restricted phase. Scott makes a good point with this. I also agree that during a dieting phase you really can't expect to grow much, at all (if at all) unless there are variables at play that likely aren't in the OPs particular situation. One example would be if you weren't on gear during an off season but are during a prep then that changes things.

                              I still would like to add that I do agree that higher volume workouts do help most people to get leaner, though. Example for the sake of conversation: My higher volume training or even Mountain Dog training vs. something like DC training is quite a contrast because the demand on energy is much more for the higher volume than DC training. You will deplete faster and tend to be running on lower glycogen stores with higher volume training and when utilizing a dieting method like Skiploading, the higher volume training is more advantageous for getting depleted quicker. Depleted glycogen stores means body fat storage becomes a main fuel source much quicker.

                              That being said, I prefer higher volume training and not taking as long between sets than in the off season. That is just me. I believe that this helps to keep intensity high without having to use the heaviest weights during a time of restricted calories and usually aches and pains, too. You don't want to train "light" while dieting but I am always leery of putting too much focus on trying to push the same weights deep into a diet that you were pushing in the off season, too. There is an inherent risk in trying to build or maintain as much muscle as possible, yes, but at the same time you want to be as smart as you can an minimize injury, as well.

                              It's a constant balancing act.

                              Skip


                              Facebook: Skip Hill
                              Instagram: @intensemuscle
                              YouTube: TEAMSKIP
                              TikTok: @intensemuscle


                              For Training Inquiries: [email protected]

                              Use discount code "SKIP" and get your TEAM SKIP protein here: www.TrueNutrition.com/TEAMSKIPblend

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