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  • Skiploading to bring up lagging bodyparts

    Hey Skip,
    I was originally prepping for a show which i now wont be able to compete in but i still wanna diet down to the likes of 3-4bf just cause i love to push my body.. Im about to incoroporate Skiploading into my diet and i got 2 little questions.
    1. whats your take on training lagging bodyparts in the am before a skipload (only a whey shake and some hydrolized whey intra/post) and then start a 6-8 hour loading window?
    2. do you feel like fatgains/boost of metabolism is way different from just eating everything(fats and carbs) than with a regular skipload ? (fullness will obv. be better with the skipload)

    thanks a lot skip!


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  • #2
    I am not Skip, but curious why you would wait to Skipload a lagging bodypart starting PWO. Why not include carbs pre and intra as well?
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    • #3
      1. I know skip doesn't advocate training on skiploading days, search for a recent thread about this topic. It was within the past few weeks

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      • #4
        Im not skip either but basically your suggesting higher cals pwo to enhance recovery from lagging body parts.

        V popular method lots do.

        As above id take in carbs pre n intra. So your fuelled n can traim that lagging part has hard as possible. Lots diet with there higher carn day on lagging body part day.

        I wouldn't be skip loading around the workout tho just higher carbs personally

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        • #5
          I'd just like to make it clear that I'm not Skip, either.

          Carry on...

          -S(cott)
          The Book Has Arrived!
          The Book Has Arrived!

          Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


          www.TrueNutrition.com

          2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
          2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
          2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

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          • #6
            LOL

            Who are..The talented Mr Ripley...Banksy?

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            • #7
              Homon or Skip, maybe you can elaborate on this... I've read that going on a keto diet and depleting glycogen and then training intensely and then having a load period where you restore glycogen can have a supercompensation effect.... Essentially saying that for the bodypartparts you trained most recently there will be a supercomsentation effect of those bodyparts. If I recall, I believe it was Lyle McDonald who wrote this and actually said performing a full body depletion workout before loading will have the greatest effect.

              I have only read this and was wondering if this is true either through science or in your experiences coaching people?
              Last edited by mentalflex; 04-08-2014, 01:37 PM.
              Be true to yourself and fuel your body with nothing less the highest quality supplements. Only available at TrueNutrition.com Use discount code: KSP945 to save 5% on your order!

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              • #8
                Weird. I swear, I was thinking this the other day. Didnt know Lyle had said it. I was just having thoughts in between medleys.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by martin_h View Post
                  Weird. I swear, I was thinking this the other day. Didnt know Lyle had said it. I was just having thoughts in between medleys.

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                  I'm pretty sure it is in the Ketogenic Diet book... I have the book but I am just thinking from memory right now.
                  Be true to yourself and fuel your body with nothing less the highest quality supplements. Only available at TrueNutrition.com Use discount code: KSP945 to save 5% on your order!

                  Stickies...just read the damn stickies...

                  2014 Xcalibur Cup Bantam Open - 1st
                  2014 Tracey Greenwood Classic Bantam Open - 1st
                  2015 Beat Cancer!

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                  • #10
                    I responded in the other thread but will respond here, as well.

                    First, I get that refeeds and "loading" has a lot of parallels with Skiploading but it still isn't the same. Skiploading is specific to eating predominantly by hunger to feed as many carbs as your body tells you that you need. It is also based around METABOLISM and how it feeds the process of fat burning.

                    That being said, what is being talked about here in this thread is based around recovery from workouts. Taking in more carbs in the window after a workout is not Skiploading. Taking in more carbs before training is not Skiploading. I am not irritated by the question, at all, but I want to make clear that Skiploading is only one way to load and it is pretty specific based on the protocol that I use and have set up and discussed at length for years. It would be like asking if DC training would be ok if this was changed and that was changed, etc.. If you change it enough, it really isn't DC training anymore.

                    I don't know what Lyle says about supercompensation. I would guess that taking in a lot more calories or carbs or whatever after a training session would provide supercompensation. BUT ... and this is a big BUT ... it would seem pretty logical that if he were referring to some sort of loading plan after training while on a keto diet, that it would probably work for supercompensation. Just to be clear, though, I don't deal with keto diets primarily and I don't do loads postworkout very often, at all, so I honestly just don't know what impact that would have on the metabolism. I do know it isn't Skiploading, though.

                    Skiploading is used for metabolic enhancement and filling out before a show. It was never meant to speed up recovery or to enhance lagging body parts. I see what the OP is asking and I think it is a legitimate question but I don't see that it would work terribly well for lagging body parts. What would likely work better is not to be in a caloric defecit, at all, and constantly feed a lagging muscle group around the clock. ANY caloric restriction is likely not going to be good for the progress of a lagging muscle group.

                    Skip

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                    • #11
                      Skip, really appreciate the response and thank you for shedding light on how different what I referred to is as compared to Skiploading.

                      And yes, Lyle is strictly referring to this supercompensation effect after being depleted of glycogen and in ketosis, which appears to be nothing like your dietary strategy and for a completely different purpose...

                      The more you talk about Skiploading the more interested I become...
                      Be true to yourself and fuel your body with nothing less the highest quality supplements. Only available at TrueNutrition.com Use discount code: KSP945 to save 5% on your order!

                      Stickies...just read the damn stickies...

                      2014 Xcalibur Cup Bantam Open - 1st
                      2014 Tracey Greenwood Classic Bantam Open - 1st
                      2015 Beat Cancer!

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                      • #12
                        Skip,
                        Would it be safe to say that training lagging a body part the DAY AFTER Skiploading would be more benefical than training it later in the week when you are more depleted?

                        OR

                        Train larger body parts day(s) after Skiploading makes more sense? Legs or back vs delts or arms (when training each body part 1x per week)

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                        • #13
                          In case anyone was confused, I'm not Lyle.

                          The standard CKD is basically heavy loading workouts during the week and a 'depletion' workout at the end of the week, followed by a carb-up.

                          The lower the glycogen levels, the higher the super compensatory effect upon loading. If you're doing the same training cycle eat week, muscle glycogen will basically be vacillating back and for the between depleted and super compensated (above normal resting levels), training and diet being the same.

                          The origin super compensation data, later followed up on by Mike Sherman (OSU) was in after endurance exercise based glycogen depletion, but it basically shows that if you dramatically reduce glycogen, there will be a dramatic increase when you supply the requisite dietary carbohydrate. Aside from the fact that weight training can cause damage, which can impair glycogen loading and can create such that energy demand for repair (after a brutal session) that even high carb diets can result in little glycogen increases in the first few hours after exercise, one would expect the endurance exercise-based glycogen studies to apply to resistance exercise.

                          -S
                          The Book Has Arrived!
                          The Book Has Arrived!

                          Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


                          www.TrueNutrition.com

                          2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
                          2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
                          2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

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                          • #14
                            Dont know if it was an intentional joke, but I lold at "Im not Lyle".

                            Great posts

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by martin_h View Post
                              Dont know if it was an intentional joke, but I lold at "Im not Lyle".

                              Great posts

                              Sent from my GT-I9100P using Tapatalk 2
                              I only joke unintentionally.



                              I'm not kidding.

                              -S
                              The Book Has Arrived!
                              The Book Has Arrived!

                              Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


                              www.TrueNutrition.com

                              2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
                              2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
                              2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

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