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Part 3 - Peri-Workout Recovery Supplementation at EliteFTS.com

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  • Part 3 - Peri-Workout Recovery Supplementation at EliteFTS.com

    Finally, some how-to stuff.



    -Scott
    The Book Has Arrived!
    The Book Has Arrived!

    Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


    www.TrueNutrition.com

    2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
    2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
    2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

  • #2
    Part 3 is my favorite :-)
    SAVE 5-10% @ TRUENUTRITION.com Use code: LG100

    - Success is the best revenge

    Comment


    • #3
      Fantastically written as always.

      It really interested me when you mentioned milk.

      I've been having it as part of my pre workout shake (for about a month) with whey/creatine and some granola/banana etc and I was thinking just this morning that I've been a lot less sore for these past 3/4 weeks and training has seemed easy (relativly speaking of course), especially after watching your youtube, muscle round vids for motivation!

      As you have said before. Try it and see if it's beneficial to you. If it isn't, chuck it out, if it is helping/working, keep it in. Don't live and die by scientific research.

      Comment


      • #4
        Scott,

        I've tried both karboload and HBCDs (as well as other high molecular weight carbs) in my RS and personally I have not noticed any difference in going between karboload or HBCDs in terms of recovery (as determined by progression in weights/reps from session to session and by muscle soreness). I was curious if you have any evidence or personal experience indicating one may be better than the other and to what extent one may be better?

        Thanks
        Be true to yourself and fuel your body with nothing less the highest quality supplements. Only available at TrueNutrition.com Use discount code: KSP945 to save 5% on your order!

        Stickies...just read the damn stickies...

        2014 Xcalibur Cup Bantam Open - 1st
        2014 Tracey Greenwood Classic Bantam Open - 1st
        2015 Beat Cancer!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by martin_h View Post
          Fantastically written as always.

          It really interested me when you mentioned milk.

          I've been having it as part of my pre workout shake (for about a month) with whey/creatine and some granola/banana etc and I was thinking just this morning that I've been a lot less sore for these past 3/4 weeks and training has seemed easy (relativly speaking of course), especially after watching your youtube, muscle round vids for motivation!

          As you have said before. Try it and see if it's beneficial to you. If it isn't, chuck it out, if it is helping/working, keep it in. Don't live and die by scientific research.
          Indeed.

          I had hoped with the article to provide some insight as to how the data can be limiting, but that there is a middle ground in terms of what is applicable and what may not be relevant.

          There seems to be some folks who just want to ignore the research all together and those that are on the other end of the spectrum. IMO, if you REALLY dig into the data (and it takes a while to do and probably much more cognitive energy than most are willing to expend), you can see where and how it fits for you.

          Originally posted by mentalflex View Post
          Scott,

          I've tried both karboload and HBCDs (as well as other high molecular weight carbs) in my RS and personally I have not noticed any difference in going between karboload or HBCDs in terms of recovery (as determined by progression in weights/reps from session to session and by muscle soreness). I was curious if you have any evidence or personal experience indicating one may be better than the other and to what extent one may be better?

          Thanks
          MF,

          My impression is that there is so much variability in how well folks can assimilate nutrients during training that it's tough to pick one carb source (for example) as clearly superior or even necessary. As I mentioned in another thread recently, there are some data suggesting the endurance athletes can train their ability to take in carbohydrate during exercise (faster gastric emptying, etc.), so someone like you, who has been using peri-/intra-WO supplements for some time, may have an enhanced capacity to absorb carbs such that you'll not notice any difference between different carb sources (within reason) in terms of fullness or recovery.

          Back in "the day" I was using just maltodextrin and glucose along with whatever was in the MRPs that I tried and was taking in 2000kcal shakes. This may not be what some people are willing to do, and it took em some time to work up to this, but I would imagine at t hat point, had I been asked to compare a 800kcal HBCD vs. a 800kcal Karbload (or Karbolyn or whatever, all other t hints being equal) intra shake, the would all have been pretty easy to take in, relatively speaking.

          -S
          The Book Has Arrived!
          The Book Has Arrived!

          Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


          www.TrueNutrition.com

          2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
          2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
          2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by homonunculus View Post

            MF,

            My impression is that there is so much variability in how well folks can assimilate nutrients during training that it's tough to pick one carb source (for example) as clearly superior or even necessary. As I mentioned in another thread recently, there are some data suggesting the endurance athletes can train their ability to take in carbohydrate during exercise (faster gastric emptying, etc.), so someone like you, who has been using peri-/intra-WO supplements for some time, may have an enhanced capacity to absorb carbs such that you'll not notice any difference between different carb sources (within reason) in terms of fullness or recovery.

            Back in "the day" I was using just maltodextrin and glucose along with whatever was in the MRPs that I tried and was taking in 2000kcal shakes. This may not be what some people are willing to do, and it took em some time to work up to this, but I would imagine at t hat point, had I been asked to compare a 800kcal HBCD vs. a 800kcal Karbload (or Karbolyn or whatever, all other t hints being equal) intra shake, the would all have been pretty easy to take in, relatively speaking.

            -S
            Makes sense to me! The way I see it is that if it is working, and working well, then why pay more for another carb source when difference in the rate of gastric emptying (if there is any) is not significant enough to result in improved recovery.

            I kind of learned a little bit working with you

            Thanks Scott
            Be true to yourself and fuel your body with nothing less the highest quality supplements. Only available at TrueNutrition.com Use discount code: KSP945 to save 5% on your order!

            Stickies...just read the damn stickies...

            2014 Xcalibur Cup Bantam Open - 1st
            2014 Tracey Greenwood Classic Bantam Open - 1st
            2015 Beat Cancer!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by mentalflex View Post
              Makes sense to me! The way I see it is that if it is working, and working well, then why pay more for another carb source when difference in the rate of gastric emptying (if there is any) is not significant enough to result in improved recovery.

              I kind of learned a little bit working with you

              Thanks Scott
              Fullness can be a surrogate for gastric emptying of course, but one could also easily measure blood glucose as well. (Smarty pants. )

              -S
              The Book Has Arrived!
              The Book Has Arrived!

              Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


              www.TrueNutrition.com

              2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
              2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
              2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by homonunculus View Post
                Fullness can be a surrogate for gastric emptying of course, but one could also easily measure blood glucose as well. (Smarty pants. )

                -S
                I definitely got a feeling of fullness using waxy maize... never with karboload though
                Be true to yourself and fuel your body with nothing less the highest quality supplements. Only available at TrueNutrition.com Use discount code: KSP945 to save 5% on your order!

                Stickies...just read the damn stickies...

                2014 Xcalibur Cup Bantam Open - 1st
                2014 Tracey Greenwood Classic Bantam Open - 1st
                2015 Beat Cancer!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Very good article, thanks for sharing.
                  "Be gentle in what you do, firm in how you do it."
                  Buck Brannaman.

                  "It is the certainty of punishment that deters crime, not the severity of it."
                  'Hanging' Judge PARKER

                  "Nothing is so powerful as an insight into human nature... what compulsions drive a man, what instincts dominate his action... if you know these things about a man you can touch him at the core of his being."
                  ~William Bernbach

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Scott, why the preference of EAA over BCAA in the RS drink? You do prefer additional Leucine on top of the EAA in certain situations?
                    SAVE 5-10% @ TRUENUTRITION.com Use code: LG100

                    - Success is the best revenge

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SAHD View Post
                      Very good article, thanks for sharing.
                      You're welcome!

                      Originally posted by LG1 View Post
                      Scott, why the preference of EAA over BCAA in the RS drink? You do prefer additional Leucine on top of the EAA in certain situations?
                      Because the other EAA's are essential and also stimulators of protein synthesis. (If you're on John Meadow's site, I've got a two part article on this over there. This has been teased out for all but one or two of the EAA's either in animal and/or human research, but there's some differences between rodents and humans.)

                      EAA's in various combinations also stimulate insulin release and syngergize with carbohydrate in that regard. An EAA blend does a better job of this than does Leucine alone, but adding Leucine to a carb / protein blend increased post exercise protein synthesis (Koopman et al., 2005) when using any protein, carbs plus protein or leucine by itself did not have this effect.

                      The thing that folks don't seem to take into account is that there is a digestive / absorption limitation during exercise, so protein absorption and amino acid presentation will be reduced compared to consuming the same supplement at rest. The effect on skeletal muscle is a matter of presentation (blood levels and blood flow), not how much you consumed, so it may be that extra leucine in a RS offsets the reduction in absorption (by increasing blood concentrations).

                      -S
                      The Book Has Arrived!
                      The Book Has Arrived!

                      Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


                      www.TrueNutrition.com

                      2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
                      2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
                      2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks Scott. Possible to obtain the two part article on EAAs other than John's site?
                        SAVE 5-10% @ TRUENUTRITION.com Use code: LG100

                        - Success is the best revenge

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by LG1 View Post
                          Thanks Scott. Possible to obtain the two part article on EAAs other than John's site?
                          Yes, it's possible, but not appropriate, IMO. John's site is a mere $10 / month. You can go on there for one month and read everything on his site and then unsubscribe if you don't think the $10 / month is worth it. Pretty damn good deal, IMO.

                          -S
                          The Book Has Arrived!
                          The Book Has Arrived!

                          Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


                          www.TrueNutrition.com

                          2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
                          2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
                          2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by homonunculus View Post
                            Yes, it's possible, but not appropriate, IMO. John's site is a mere $10 / month. You can go on there for one month and read everything on his site and then unsubscribe if you don't think the $10 / month is worth it. Pretty damn good deal, IMO.

                            -S
                            Looks like you put in some work on there for December Scott... You are really pumping out the articles!

                            Kind of ironic you wrote the whey article and I am currently writing a paper on the whey protein supply chain. I'll be citing you as a reference lol

                            So when are you coming out with Scott’s Undenatured Super Antioxidant Ergogenic Whey?
                            Last edited by mentalflex; 12-05-2013, 02:24 PM.
                            Be true to yourself and fuel your body with nothing less the highest quality supplements. Only available at TrueNutrition.com Use discount code: KSP945 to save 5% on your order!

                            Stickies...just read the damn stickies...

                            2014 Xcalibur Cup Bantam Open - 1st
                            2014 Tracey Greenwood Classic Bantam Open - 1st
                            2015 Beat Cancer!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              More than anything else, incorporating carbs intra-workout has helped me keep my intensity up through the workout, especially during leg training.

                              Prior to incorporating carbs into my intra-workout supplementation I would get pale, light-headed, tunnel vision, etc. very quickly during high intensity leg workouts. And it would take me very long to recover from this, essentially ending my workout early - often after just one intense set for quads (which is why I moved squats, leg press, etc. to the end of my training). However, once I started consuming carbs during my workout this stopped happening. Now, for the past couple months, I've kept intra-workout supplementation to just BCAAS and I'm strugging during leg training again.


                              2017 NPC National Championships Classic Physique, Class D - 4th Place
                              2017 NPC New England Championships Classic Physique, Class C - 1st Place
                              2017 NPC East Coast Cup Classic Physique, Tall Class - 1st Place & Overall
                              2015 Arnold Amateur Men's Classic Bodybuilding, Tall Class - 4th Place
                              2013 NPC Europa Battle of Champions - 1st Place Novice Heavyweight, 2nd Place Open Light-Heavyweight


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