High reps vs Low Reps for Hypertrophy

[7asssa7]

Outside of the rest-pause, when comparing High Weight Low reps (1-6 ) reps vs 6+ reps, what is the difference in terms of hypertrophy stimulation? What about reps such as 15,20+?

[bmp]

i think certain muscle groups respond better to higher reps (>15). calves, forearms, traps, rear delts, lateral delts. even legs to an extent

other muscle groups seem to respond better to lower rep ranges. of course none of this is really set in stone. it's good to cycle between phases of higher reps and lower reps if your progress is stalling or training is getting stale.

[mentalflex]

Moderate rep range, between 6-12 reps, has consistently been proven to stimulate hypertrophy and the effect is further enhanced by an emphasis on the eccentric portion which will increase the TUT.

[7asssa7]

Moderate rep range, between 6-12 reps, has consistently been proven to stimulate hypertrophy and the effect is further enhanced by an emphasis on the eccentric portion which will increase the TUT.

Is it not the Total Time Under Load that matters more than TUT? Lifting faster on concentric and a controlled eccentric even for 12 reps will still be about 20-30 seconds of TUT. Taking into account that "gurus" advocate 60-90 seconds of TUT in a set, that sort of goes opposite.

Is it not true that the Size Principle of muscle fiber recruitment states that even 20 reps taken to failure will activate the majority of the muscle fibers?

I personally think TUT is a myth because than Rest-Pause training would not be working as it is? Also lifting faster is better than slower.

[MusclesAreSexy]

Not sure if this thread is serious... So I'm going to go with yes it's serious.
And my response would be 11 reps, failing on the 12th rep is the only way your muscles will be sexy providing you take 0.8 seconds to lift the weight up and 3.2 seconds to put the weight down. But it has to be exact so purchase one of those stop watches that play through an eyepiece and are activated by your mouth. Hope this helps.

Sexy.

[mentalflex]

Is it not the Total Time Under Load that matters more than TUT? Lifting faster on concentric and a controlled eccentric even for 12 reps will still be about 20-30 seconds of TUT. Taking into account that "gurus" advocate 60-90 seconds of TUT in a set, that sort of goes opposite.

Is it not true that the Size Principle of muscle fiber recruitment states that even 20 reps taken to failure will activate the majority of the muscle fibers?

I personally think TUT is a myth because than Rest-Pause training would not be working as it is? Also lifting faster is better than slower.

What is the difference between time under load and time under tension? It is just a matter of semantics. If you are focusing on the eccentric portion you will be under the load for a greater period of time thus recruiting more muscle fibers.

Like I said, it has been proven that the moderate rep range optimally stimulate hypertrophy. It has also been proven that a heavy emphasis on the eccentric (eccentric failure) elicits more exercises induced muscle damage that simple reaching concentric failure. DC emphasizes the negative and provides for significant exercise induced muscle damage.

Hypertrophy comes from EIMD and then providing the nutrients to repair the muscles and grow. A focus on eccentric failure does provides more EIMB than concentric failure. You need to train heavy enough and place the muscle under tension for sufficient amount of time to recruit as many muscle fibers as possible and create sufficient EIMD to stimulate hypertrophy. And there are going to be individual differences based on muscle fiber composition.

[Swaminator]

I have been training seriously for 25+ years now. That said, I have gone through waves of being really into it...and just going through the motions. Through it all I have learned the following:

1. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat (many things work)

2. NOTHING beats consistency

3. For power, of course the heavier weights with lower reps work

4. For size, well that depends...see #5 below

5. I belive SOME movements are better geared toward heavy weights and lower reps while SOME are the opposite.

Specifically for hypertrophy

examples of lower reps/more lbs: deadlifts & variations, pressing movements, cleans have a sweet spot of 5-8

examples of more reps& less lbs: isolation exercises, lateral raises, squats , flies, bicep curls, tricep extensions, leg curls have a sweet spot of 10-20

6. Training the movement vs training the muscle is REAL. As a powerlifter all I cared about was moving the weight from point A to point B. I got really "strong" but didn't get the associated size. I used to get the comments "you are strong for your size." For the past couple years I focused on getting bigger (beach muscle). So I don't focus on the amount of weight I am lifting or even the number of reps. Instead I focus on isolating the muscle and squeezing/pumping. As a result I look bigger, but I am not stronger than I was 2 years ago at a lighter bodyweight. I am 10 lbs heavier now than I was 2 years ago but just as lean. And the only difference is increased volume, more reps, less rest between sets, focus on muscle over movement

In closing my personal experience is:

If your ONLY goal is to look bigger you need to

1. Use a combination of compound movements with BIG weights and lower reps. With isolation movements use lower weights and more reps. *Squats are an exception for me as I used to squat big weights with low reps and never got any leg size, so for those...high reps rule.

2. Focus on working the muscle instead of working the movement

3. More is better (volume)

4. Less is better (rest time between sets)

[MachMood]

What about non linear periodization? Something like 2 power days and 3 hypertrophy days. I'm going to be experimenting with this type of training and see how it goes. Something like Monday power upper, Tuesday power lower, then push/pull/legs hypertrophy. To answer you question specifically general consensus is higher rep range, with volume being the main factor for growth

[greensoup]

I have been training seriously for 25+ years now. That said, I have gone through waves of being really into it...and just going through the motions. Through it all I have learned the following:

1. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat (many things work)

2. NOTHING beats consistency

3. For power, of course the heavier weights with lower reps work

4. For size, well that depends...see #5 below

5. I belive SOME movements are better geared toward heavy weights and lower reps while SOME are the opposite.

Specifically for hypertrophy

examples of lower reps/more lbs: deadlifts & variations, pressing movements, cleans have a sweet spot of 5-8

examples of more reps& less lbs: isolation exercises, lateral raises, squats , flies, bicep curls, tricep extensions, leg curls have a sweet spot of 10-20

6. Training the movement vs training the muscle is REAL. As a powerlifter all I cared about was moving the weight from point A to point B. I got really "strong" but didn't get the associated size. I used to get the comments "you are strong for your size." For the past couple years I focused on getting bigger (beach muscle). So I don't focus on the amount of weight I am lifting or even the number of reps. Instead I focus on isolating the muscle and squeezing/pumping. As a result I look bigger, but I am not stronger than I was 2 years ago at a lighter bodyweight. I am 10 lbs heavier now than I was 2 years ago but just as lean. And the only difference is increased volume, more reps, less rest between sets, focus on muscle over movement

In closing my personal experience is:

If your ONLY goal is to look bigger you need to

1. Use a combination of compound movements with BIG weights and lower reps. With isolation movements use lower weights and more reps. *Squats are an exception for me as I used to squat big weights with low reps and never got any leg size, so for those...high reps rule.

2. Focus on working the muscle instead of working the movement

3. More is better (volume)

4. Less is better (rest time between sets)

IME, #6 is very very important since i came from the same boat of ranch

[Kag94]

What about non linear periodization? Something like 2 power days and 3 hypertrophy days. I'm going to be experimenting with this type of training and see how it goes. Something like Monday power upper, Tuesday power lower, then push/pull/legs hypertrophy. To answer you question specifically general consensus is higher rep range, with volume being the main factor for growth

This is exactly the split I have been running for the past month. So far I like it. Due to the caloric deficit I have experienced some drops in weight on the main pressing movements but other than that recovery has been good.

[boilerroom]

I have been training seriously for 25+ years now. That said, I have gone through waves of being really into it...and just going through the motions. Through it all I have learned the following:

1. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat (many things work)

2. NOTHING beats consistency

3. For power, of course the heavier weights with lower reps work

4. For size, well that depends...see #5 below

5. I belive SOME movements are better geared toward heavy weights and lower reps while SOME are the opposite.

Specifically for hypertrophy

examples of lower reps/more lbs: deadlifts & variations, pressing movements, cleans have a sweet spot of 5-8

examples of more reps& less lbs: isolation exercises, lateral raises, squats , flies, bicep curls, tricep extensions, leg curls have a sweet spot of 10-20

6. Training the movement vs training the muscle is REAL. As a powerlifter all I cared about was moving the weight from point A to point B. I got really "strong" but didn't get the associated size. I used to get the comments "you are strong for your size." For the past couple years I focused on getting bigger (beach muscle). So I don't focus on the amount of weight I am lifting or even the number of reps. Instead I focus on isolating the muscle and squeezing/pumping. As a result I look bigger, but I am not stronger than I was 2 years ago at a lighter bodyweight. I am 10 lbs heavier now than I was 2 years ago but just as lean. And the only difference is increased volume, more reps, less rest between sets, focus on muscle over movement

In closing my personal experience is:

If your ONLY goal is to look bigger you need to

1. Use a combination of compound movements with BIG weights and lower reps. With isolation movements use lower weights and more reps. *Squats are an exception for me as I used to squat big weights with low reps and never got any leg size, so for those...high reps rule.

2. Focus on working the muscle instead of working the movement

3. More is better (volume)

4. Less is better (rest time between sets)

Where's the like button?

[Kidrok (Hop)]

And with 30+ years in the game, i will echo the statements below and add that it is also an "individual" thing. People can have different types of muscle fiber and those different fibers do tend to respond differently to rep ranges in my experience.
I've also found that my age seems to make a difference whereas I use to do "powerbuilding", and other programs geared toward heavy training (4-8 rep stuff) which did help create a good thick base, but now I find I respond just as wll or maybe even better to sets of 10-15 or even 15-20 on many exercises.

I have been training seriously for 25+ years now. That said, I have gone through waves of being really into it...and just going through the motions. Through it all I have learned the following:

1. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat (many things work)

2. NOTHING beats consistency

3. For power, of course the heavier weights with lower reps work

4. For size, well that depends...see #5 below

5. I belive SOME movements are better geared toward heavy weights and lower reps while SOME are the opposite.

Specifically for hypertrophy

examples of lower reps/more lbs: deadlifts & variations, pressing movements, cleans have a sweet spot of 5-8

examples of more reps& less lbs: isolation exercises, lateral raises, squats , flies, bicep curls, tricep extensions, leg curls have a sweet spot of 10-20

6. Training the movement vs training the muscle is REAL. As a powerlifter all I cared about was moving the weight from point A to point B. I got really "strong" but didn't get the associated size. I used to get the comments "you are strong for your size." For the past couple years I focused on getting bigger (beach muscle). So I don't focus on the amount of weight I am lifting or even the number of reps. Instead I focus on isolating the muscle and squeezing/pumping. As a result I look bigger, but I am not stronger than I was 2 years ago at a lighter bodyweight. I am 10 lbs heavier now than I was 2 years ago but just as lean. And the only difference is increased volume, more reps, less rest between sets, focus on muscle over movement

In closing my personal experience is:

If your ONLY goal is to look bigger you need to

1. Use a combination of compound movements with BIG weights and lower reps. With isolation movements use lower weights and more reps. *Squats are an exception for me as I used to squat big weights with low reps and never got any leg size, so for those...high reps rule.

2. Focus on working the muscle instead of working the movement

3. More is better (volume)

4. Less is better (rest time between sets)

[RobbHensel]

FWIW

I'm following a method that rotates between, Reps, Heavy Weight, and Explosive Work. I'm growing again, also keep in mind I'm eating to grow but also not getting fat.

My point is I think a combination of everything is the way to go. At some point the heavy days will become less and less and I've learned through experience that some of my bodyparts respond better to high(er) reps. Sometimes you need to experiment and find out what's right for YOU.

I work as an engineer and we design thinks that on paper look like gold, then we apply them to find out well, if we tweak this or change that it's more applicable and works better and we learn for next time. Food for thought.

[bbjeff86]

Robb out of curiosity are using the Cube Method?

[mentalflex]

FWIW

I'm following a method that rotates between, Reps, Heavy Weight, and Explosive Work. I'm growing again, also keep in mind I'm eating to grow but also not getting fat.

My point is I think a combination of everything is the way to go. At some point the heavy days will become less and less and I've learned through experience that some of my bodyparts respond better to high(er) reps. Sometimes you need to experiment and find out what's right for YOU.

I work as an engineer and we design thinks that on paper look like gold, then we apply them to find out well, if we tweak this or change that it's more applicable and works better and we learn for next time. Food for thought.

I agree. Whether it be over time as a periodized approach or a daily periodization with several different styles of training rotated throughout a week, doing the same thing for too long will eventually lead to stagnation.

I've done both and it is tough to give a true comparison of sticking with one style versus a daily undulating schedule because now I now much more about nutrition and am more committed toward one goal as compared to when I did heavy days/light days or power and hypertrophy days, but both have been effective.