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  • Who actually busy into this 2 ???

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    LG1
    Super-heavyweight Member
    Last edited by LG1; 04-25-2013, 01:56 PM.
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  • #2
    Since I cluttered up your other thread, I'll "contribute" here.

    I messed around with my PWO nutrition while on a keto-like (ULC) protocol. I stole some ideas from the carb backloaders and used a PWO shake comprised of;
    Whey Isolate 15-20 g
    Casein 10-15g
    Hydrolysate (Whey, Casein or Both) 10-15g
    Leucine 6g
    Creatine 5g

    The theory being that the Leucine and the hydrolyzed protein elicited enough of an insulin response to make effective use of the protein. However, even the CBL protocol calls for 15-20g high GI carbs PWO-I was simply experimenting with it.

    Did I notice a difference? Maybe. Unfortunately this wasn't controlled enough to point to one single variable as being effective. I can tell you I didn't *suffer* any negatives e.g. bodyfat increase, slowing of growth.

    On the flip side, when I was REALLY kicking ass with Skip, I was taking in 100-125g carbs PWO and my recovery was freakin awesome.

    Honestly, I like my PWO carbs if for no other reason than they're a short reprieve from the daily diet grind.
    You're perfect, yes it's true. But without me...you're only you.

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    • #3
      That's cool Rage. I didn't go as heavy as you did on the carbs while working with skip. Aprox 50-grams PWO.

      I have been massing and enjoying my carbs intra and PWO these days.
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      • #4
        I'd be curious to get the smart guys' input on PWO carb sources.

        I'm reading more and more that very serious trainees are going with "cleaner" carb sources like dextrose powder. I'm under the impression that sugar is sugar for purposes of spiking insulin PWO, and as long as there's little to no fat, the source is irrelevant.

        Skip?
        You're perfect, yes it's true. But without me...you're only you.

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        • #5
          Scott/Homon?
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          • #6
            Originally posted by LG1 View Post
            Scott/Homon?
            Again, you're just copying and pasting an not specifying where you have have an issue with anything that Poliquin said.

            IMO, the relevant questions are:

            Does he 1.) interpret the studies correctly in and of themselves and 2.) place those finding in the context of the rest of the literature on the topic?

            Where does Poliquin's tip fit in with your carb choice question?...

            -S
            The Book Has Arrived!
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            Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


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            • #7
              Originally posted by homonunculus View Post
              Again, you're just copying and pasting an not specifying where you have have an issue with anything that Poliquin said.

              IMO, the relevant questions are:

              Does he 1.) interpret the studies correctly in and of themselves and 2.) place those finding in the context of the rest of the literature on the topic?

              Where does Poliquin's tip fit in with your carb choice question?...

              -S
              I don't agree with the statement that one doen't need carbs PWO if they are in a fat loss stage. Unless one is grossly overweight, I see carbs as being imperative to PWO recovery.
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              • #8
                Originally posted by LG1 View Post
                I don't agree with the statement that one doen't need carbs PWO if they are in a fat loss stage. Unless one is grossly overweight, I see carbs as being imperative to PWO recovery.
                Why?...

                -S
                The Book Has Arrived!
                The Book Has Arrived!

                Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


                www.TrueNutrition.com

                2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
                2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
                2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

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                • #9
                  Based on myself, I have done both. The way I feel PWO with carbs vs. without is night and day as well as how I look. Def. feel and look fuller with carbs than without.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by LG1 View Post
                    Based on myself, I have done both. The way I feel PWO with carbs vs. without is night and day as well as how I look. Def. feel and look fuller with carbs than without.
                    No offense LG1, because I appreciate what you're saying and I'm glad you are thinking about how your experiences go or don't go along with what the literature is saying. But, at the same time in the context of science, it doesn't matter what you think (but in a nicer way). What research indicates is much more compelling. You are only providing us anecdotal information and unfortunately how we feel and remember things isn't often reality...it's our perception of reality.

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                    • #11
                      What's your take on the concept of "clean" carbs? Any validity?
                      You're perfect, yes it's true. But without me...you're only you.

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                      • #12
                        No offense taken. Again, i am sure there is more than one way to do things and get to the same result. I think some people over do it with PWO carbs and this may impede their fat loss.

                        In my case, when working with Skip, I still managed to get my 50 grams or so of PWO carbs and continued to drop fat.

                        I think the approach that makes sense to me is everything in moderation. Why suffer or have to put up with the consequences of the extremes too many carbs versus no carbs.
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by LG1 View Post
                          No offense taken. Again, i am sure there is more than one way to do things and get to the same result. I think some people over do it with PWO carbs and this may impede their fat loss.

                          In my case, when working with Skip, I still managed to get my 50 grams or so of PWO carbs and continued to drop fat.

                          I think the approach that makes sense to me is everything in moderation. Why suffer or have to put up with the consequences of the extremes too many carbs versus no carbs.
                          My suggestion would be to do a review of literature on the topic, then tell us what you've discovered that either agrees or disagrees with what the article asserts. It may take a little longer in the short term, but if you write down your findings and save the articles, you'll be able to reference it many times over and will save you time down the road as the topic comes up. This sounds like a lot of work and it can be, but it makes your opinion and argument more compelling. If you're looking for a little help to get going and don't quite feel ready to dissect research yourself there are some sources out there that will make it more appealing. For example, Brett Contreras and Chris Beardsley do monthly reviews of common strength questions through reviewing articles. This is a monthly review that runs $10/month.

                          To give you a little incentive here's a quick google scholar search from the last 10 years for "post-workout carbohydrate intake":
                          http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=...02&as_yhi=2013
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                          Last edited by Guest; 02-15-2013, 05:06 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by RageBlanket View Post
                            What's your take on the concept of "clean" carbs? Any validity?
                            I did SKIP's experiment where he put me, and the other guys involved, on cutting diets (mine wasn't all that aggressive), with the only difference being that ALL carbs were from high GI, Skipload type foods. The number of carbs was the same as it would have been if I was eating clean one's, just the source changed. For three months I got all of my carbs from mike and ike's, juice, gatorade, rice krispie treats, kids cereal, fruity pebbles treats, pop tarts and all that good stuff.

                            I didn't get super lean on the diet but what I got was a solid recomp effect, I dropped a few pounds, came out a little bigger and more muscular and ended up shedding a few points off of my body fat percentage. I'd have to look up my write-up to see the exact change in weight, but I dropped a handful of lb's and hardened up while eating tons of shit on a daily basis, in addition to big time Skiploading on Sundays.

                            I know this isn't anything scientific, rather it's anecdotal, but I was part of it and saw that I was able to get solid results while eating
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dakoose View Post
                              I did SKIP's experiment where he put me, and the other guys involved, on cutting diets (mine wasn't all that aggressive), with the only difference being that ALL carbs were from high GI, Skipload type foods. The number of carbs was the same as it would have been if I was eating clean one's, just the source changed. For three months I got all of my carbs from mike and ike's, juice, gatorade, rice krispie treats, kids cereal, fruity pebbles treats, pop tarts and all that good stuff.

                              I didn't get super lean on the diet but what I got was a solid recomp effect, I dropped a few pounds, came out a little bigger and more muscular and ended up shedding a few points off of my body fat percentage. I'd have to look up my write-up to see the exact change in weight, but I dropped a handful of lb's and hardened up while eating tons of shit on a daily basis, in addition to big time Skiploading on Sundays.

                              I know this isn't anything scientific, rather it's anecdotal, but I was part of it and saw that I was able to get solid results while eating
                              Lets see the research and literature:moon:
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