Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Who actually buys into this???

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Who actually buys into this???

    Tip 536: Improve Body Composition With Heavy Weight Training: Why You Should Not Do “Cardio” Unless You Are An Endurance Athleteby Charles Poliquin on
    Wednesday, February 13, 2013 6:06 AM .

    Improve body composition by building muscle and losing body fat with heavy weight training. Be sure to avoid “cardio” training unless you are an endurance athlete because steady-state exercise, even when done at a high intensity has been shown to impair muscle and strength development. On the flip side, if you are an endurance runner, cyclist, rower, triathlete, etc., weight training can help you improve your speed and endurance performance.

    A new study in the European Journal of Applied Physiology is the first to compare how endurance exercise will inhibit strength and muscle building during a heavy weight training program. Researchers used two groups in this 12-week study: One group of recreationally active men without weight lifting experience did lower body weight training (Strength group), and a second group of competitive cyclists performed their regular cycling training in addition to the same lower body weight training program (Strength-Endurance group). The cyclists had not previously been lifting before the start of the study.

    The weight training program for both groups included squats, one-legged leg press, one-legged hip flexion, and calf raises following a periodized model that increased the load and decreased the repetitions every 4 weeks. Results showed superior outcomes for all measurements in the Strength group compared to the Strength-Endurance group:
    • The Strength group increased 1RM in the squat by 35 percent compared to only a 25 percent increase in the Strength-Endurance group.
    • The Strength group gained strength more quickly as well and lifted more volume over the course of the study than the Strength-Endurance group.
    • The Strength group increased jump squat performance by 13 percent compared to a 6 percent increase in the Strength-Endurance group. The Strength group increased rate of force development by 15 percent, whereas the Strength-Endurance group did not improve in this test at all.
    • The Strength group increased quad and hamstring cross-sectional area by 50 percent more than the Strength-Endurance group, which had very minor 4 percent increase in leg muscle development.
    • The Strength group gained about 1 kg of muscle, whereas the Strength-Endurance group had no change in body mass.

    Why is it that the athletes in this study gained less strength and power than the everyday folks?

    The outcome is actually not surprising since we’ve known for some time that endurance training inhibits strength and power gains from weight training and blunts the normal muscle hypertrophy effect. In addition, a suboptimal hormone response to training has been documented in concurrent endurance and strength training. Typical male endurance athletes have suppressed resting concentrations of testosterone and elevated cortisol, which is an unfavorable catabolic state that compromises muscle repair.

    More evidence of the negative effect of endurance training on the anabolic environment was seen in a study that found that when endurance athletes added a weight training for 14 weeks to their training, they had a higher testosterone to cortisol ratio (favorable and more anabolic) than at baseline. But, the ratio was significantly reduced during a second 14-week period in which they discontinued the strength training.

    The take away from this study is that everyone should do weight training. If your goal is to lose fat and/or build muscle, weight training will get you there, but it’s very important that you not compromise your strength and muscle development by doing endurance training as well. Obviously strength and power athletes must avoid endurance exercise, and body builders shouldn’t be doing it either.

    If you want to accelerate the fat loss process, doing very high-intensity sprint training should not compromise your weight training outcome. However, be sure to take vitamin C to help clear cortisol post-workout.

    The only people who should be doing endurance training are endurance athletes. Doing a strength-type of weight training program with heavy loads (80 percent of the 1RM or heavier) will improve short and long-term endurance capacity, while increasing speed. Don’t worry, strength training WON’T compromise endurance performance or cause measureable hypertrophy if done in conjunction with regular endurance training.

    Reference
    Ronnestad, B., et al. High Volume of Endurance Training Impairs Adaptations to 12 Weeks of Strength Training in Well-Trained Endurance Athletes. European Journal of Applied Physiology. 2012. 112, 1457-1466.
    Last edited by LG1; 02-13-2013, 02:20 PM.
    SAVE 5-10% @ TRUENUTRITION.com Use code: LG100

    - Success is the best revenge

  • #2
    LG1,

    Could you be more specific about what you're talking about "buying into?"

    -S
    The Book Has Arrived!
    The Book Has Arrived!

    Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


    www.TrueNutrition.com

    2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
    2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
    2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

    Comment


    • #3
      Mngeh...I go by what Justin Harris said about cardio...forgive my butchering but I paraphrase...

      "Cardio is just a means to burn calories. You can easily drop 500 calories from your diet or burn 500 calories with cardio. I like to eat, so I'd rather eat and burn that 500 calories than drop it from my diet."
      Max Muscle
      5020 Katella Ave.
      Los Alamitos, CA 90720
      www.MaxMuscleLosAlamitos.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by homonunculus View Post
        LG1,

        Could you be more specific about what you're talking about "buying into?"

        -S
        That steady state cardio ("SSC") is counter-productive when one's goal is muscle hypertrophy.
        SAVE 5-10% @ TRUENUTRITION.com Use code: LG100

        - Success is the best revenge

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by LG1 View Post
          That steady state cardio ("SSC") is counter-productive when one's goal is muscle hypertrophy.
          I didn't read it, but if that's what they said it needs some context. I mean, say someone wants to put on muscle so he's going to be eating 3500 calories every day. If he goes ahead and burns 500 every morning on the treadmill, then that's 500 less calories available for building muscle. But if the person compensates for the 500 he burns in the morning by upping the daily cals to 4000, then I don't think the SSC should be much of an issue. If the cardio is really heavy, like lots of sprints or running 7-8 miles every day, that's one thing, and the stress on the body might not be able to compensated for by just eating extra calories (maybe the body will just get beat down from all the work). But if we're talking about the step-mill or incline walking, then I don't think it'll be an issue as long as the person's eating enough to still put on the muscle.
          Last edited by dakoose; 02-13-2013, 02:42 PM.
          Use True Nutrition Discount Code YKF124 for 5-10% off of all orders from TRUENUTRITION.com!

          My On-Site Log

          My Off-Site Log

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by LG1 View Post
            That steady state cardio ("SSC") is counter-productive when one's goal is muscle hypertrophy.
            I think there are many who agree that, when trying to control bodyfat while adding strength, HIIT is superior to LISS cardio.
            You're perfect, yes it's true. But without me...you're only you.

            Comment


            • #7
              It makes sense. Long bouts of steady state cardio can lower nitrogen balance and do not offer stimulation of growth pathways. This means you are creating a larger need for protein without return in terms of hypertrophy. It has been shown that endurance athletes, such as marathoners, may require more protein due to this phenomena. Also, we know how adaptable the body is, so if you are running, why would you body keep weight it has to transport. Decrease muscle mass, decrease weight needing to be moved, increase running efficiency. Application wise, what could this mean. If you are trying to stimulate hypertrophy, do not go for an hour long jog, and if you do, increase your protein uptake. Going for a half hour walk, however, isnt going to do much to hinder size gains. I think better alternatives are things like interval training. Everything I say here can probably be countered by some research (as it seems anything can), however this is what I have been taught in metabolism class and what I believed based on the research I have read, and what makes sense to me. So take it for what it is...
              " Tears will get you sympathy. Sweat will get you results."

              "Losers always whine about their "best"! Winners go home and fuck the prom queen."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by LG1 View Post
                That steady state cardio ("SSC") is counter-productive when one's goal is muscle hypertrophy.
                The study that Poliquin uses to make his point is oddly designed, but there are numerous studies showing interference of endurance exercise with strength training adaptations. (This is not a new finding in the research literature.)

                http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12627304

                http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20030775

                http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15616847

                http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19387377

                http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2381303

                -S
                The Book Has Arrived!
                The Book Has Arrived!

                Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


                www.TrueNutrition.com

                2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
                2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
                2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

                Comment


                • #9
                  Scott, what do you prefer to do yourself as well as for your clients? LISS/SSC or HIIT?
                  SAVE 5-10% @ TRUENUTRITION.com Use code: LG100

                  - Success is the best revenge

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by LG1 View Post
                    Scott, what do you prefer to do yourself as well as for your clients? LISS/SSC or HIIT?
                    None if at all possible. It depends on what they've done in the past, how much getting in shape has been an issue, whether leg size is a strength, etc., but in an ideal world, cardio is minimal.

                    (I learned this personally years ago and haven't done any formal cardio to get in shape at all for well over a decade. I walk my dogs out in the desert and around the neighborhood, but that's just b/c I love them and they dig it. If I could keep them happy and train them to pull me around in a wagon, I'd probably do that instead. )

                    -S
                    The Book Has Arrived!
                    The Book Has Arrived!

                    Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


                    www.TrueNutrition.com

                    2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
                    2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
                    2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I worked with Skip in the past on a 6-month fat loss cycle and I was doing SSC/LISS. Worked pretty well in my case. I have never personally tried doing HIIT.
                      I have seen others claim that HIIT is superior to LISS/SSC for fat loss in addition to being more muscle sparing... still skepticle of it.
                      Last edited by LG1; 02-13-2013, 04:27 PM.
                      SAVE 5-10% @ TRUENUTRITION.com Use code: LG100

                      - Success is the best revenge

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by homonunculus View Post
                        None if at all possible. It depends on what they've done in the past, how much getting in shape has been an issue, whether leg size is a strength, etc., but in an ideal world, cardio is minimal.

                        (I learned this personally years ago and haven't done any formal cardio to get in shape at all for well over a decade. I walk my dogs out in the desert and around the neighborhood, but that's just b/c I love them and they dig it. If I could keep them happy and train them to pull me around in a wagon, I'd probably do that instead. )

                        -S
                        Damn, how do you stay so lean.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by homonunculus View Post
                          The study that Poliquin uses to make his point is oddly designed, but there are numerous studies showing interference of endurance exercise with strength training adaptations. (This is not a new finding in the research literature.)

                          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12627304

                          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20030775

                          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15616847

                          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19387377

                          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2381303

                          -S
                          My 2-cents with the bold portions that still need to be addressed, and unfortunately are most applicable to populations most like those on this board...

                          In what I've read if the frequency and volume of combined training is high such as training six days per week, particularly if the mode of exercise uses the same muscle groups such as the knee extensors in cycling and leg extensions, maximum strength gains, high velocity strength gains, and hypertrophy gains, particularly of type I muscle fibers, can be attenuated compared to strength training alone (Bell et al., 2000; Dudley & Djamil, 1985; Hickson, 1980). In addition, endurance sport athletes who maintain a high level of endurance exercise such as cyclists in a competitive season can show a reduction in strength, rate of force production/power, and hypertrophy when compared to strength only training (Ronnestad et al., 2012). However, the addition of explosive type strength training can improve sport performance in endurance athletes through improvements in rate of force production and neural activation without negatively impacting aerobic capacity if endurance training is reduced to compensate for the added training volume (Mikkola et al., 2007). In addition, combined training can improve strength, rate of force production/power, and hypertrophy to similar levels of strength only training while improving aerobic capacity and decreasing body fat if training volume is kept to 3-4 days per week and mode of exercise is varied (Arazi et al., 2011; McCarthy et al., 2002; Mikkola et al., 2007; Shaw et al., 2009). Finally, although there may be significant differences in trainability (Karavirta et al., 2011b), a combined style of training of four times per week can show significant improvements in lean mass, neuromuscular function, maximal strength, aerobic capacity, total fat, and lipid metabolism (Karavirta et al., 2011a, 2011b; Silanpaa et al. 2009).


                          The disagreement on the compatibility of strength and endurance training is due to the fact that studies differ on design factors like mode, frequency, duration and intensity of training, training history of participants, and scheduling of training sessions. Adaptations to exercise are specific to the type of training stimulus. If the coach, clinician, or individual knows the adaptations that are most important to them, manipulation of these variables should not be a problem when using combined training to improve strength, hypertrophy, power, sport performance, and aerobic capacity concurrently.


                          However, all participants in the the studies I have reviewed were either sedentary, recreationally active, or endurance athletes. No traditional team sport athletes or experienced strength training populations were reviewed. Future research should address if the same outcomes would hold true for populations that have more strength training experience since gains from exercise slow with training experience. This would mean that the strength athlete would likely need a larger stimulus in order to continue to gain strength which makes it more likely endurance training may attenuate those gains. This may also bring to light the difference in trainability of various populations as there are often genetic differences in the percentage and distribution of fiber types in endurance and strength athletes. Testing fiber type distribution before and after the experimental period may reveal why some populations respond better to certain types of training than others. In addition, future studies should investigate the order of resistance and endurance training exercises such as endurance before strength versus strength before endurance. And finally, investigation of the indices of overtraining should be addressed that compare concurrent training protocols that are more similar in volumes to individual strength only training and endurance only training.


                          References

                          Arazi, H., Faraji, H., Moghadam, M., & Samadi, A. (2011). Effects of concurrent exercise protocols on strength, aerobic, power, flexibility and body composition. Kinesiology, 43(2), 155-162.

                          Bell, G., Syrotuik, D., Martin, T., & Burnham, R. (2000). Effect of concurrent strength endurance training on skeletal muscle properties and hormone concentrations in humans. European Journal Of Applied Physiology, 81(5), 418-427.


                          Dudley, G. A., & Djamil, R. R. (1985). Incompatibility of endurance- and strength-training modes of exercise. Journal Of Applied Physiology, 59(5), 1446-1451.

                          Hakkinen, K. K., Alen, M. M., Kraemer, W. J., Gorostiaga, E. E., Izquierdo, M. M., Rusko, H.H., & ... Paavolainen, L. L. (2003). Neuromuscular adaptations during concurrent strength and endurance training versus strength training. European Journal Of Applied Physiology, 89(1), 42-52.

                          Hickson, R. C. (1980). Interference of strength development by simultaneously training for strength and endurance. European Journal Of Applied Physiology & Occupational Physiology, 45(2/3), 255-263.

                          Izquierdo-Gabarren, M., De Txabarri Expósito, R., García-Pállarés, J., Sánchez-Medina, L., De Villarreal, E., & Izquierdo, M. (2010). Concurrent Endurance and Strength Training Not to Failure Optimizes Performance Gains. Medicine & Science In Sports & Exercise,42(6), 1191-1199.

                          Karavirta, L. L., Häkkinen, A. A., Sillanpää, E. E., García-López, D. D., Kauhanen, A. A., Haapasaari, A. A., & ... Häkkinen, K. K. (2011a). Effects of combined endurance and strength training on muscle strength, power and hypertrophy in 40-67-year-old men. Scandinavian Journal Of Medicine & Science In Sports, 21(3), 402-411.

                          Karavirta, L., Häkkinen, K., Kauhanen, A., Arija-Bläzquez, A., Sillanpää, E., Rinkinen, N., & Häkkinen, A. (2011b). Individual Responses to Combined Endurance and Strength Training in Older Adults. Medicine & Science In Sports & Exercise, 43(3), 484-490.

                          McCarthy, J. P., Pozniak, M. A., & Agre, J. c. (2002). Neuromuscular adaptations to concurrent strength and endurance training. Medicine & Science In Sports & Exercise, 34(3), 511-519.

                          Mikkola, J. S., Rusko, H. K., Nummela, A. T., Paavolainen, L. M., & Häkkinen, K. (2007). Concurrent endurance and explosive type strength training increases activation and fast force production of leg extensor muscles in endurance athletes. Journal Of Strength & Conditioning Research (Allen Press Publishing Services Inc.), 21(2), 613-620.

                          Rønnestad, B., Hansen, E., & Raastad, T. (2012). High volume of endurance training impairs adaptations to 12 weeks of strength training in well-trained endurance athletes. European Journal Of Applied Physiology, 112(4), 1457-1466.

                          Shaw, B. S., Shaw, I., & Brown, G. A. (2009). Comparison of resistance and concurrent resistance and endurance training regimes in the development of strength. Journal Of Strength & Conditioning Research (Lippincott Williams & Wilkins),23(9), 2507-2514.

                          Sillanpää, E., Laaksonen, D. E., Häkkinen, A., Karavirta, L., Jensen, B. J., Kraemer, W., & ...Häkkinen, K. (2009). Body composition, fitness, and metabolic health during strength and endurance training and their combination in middle-aged and older women. European Journal Of Applied Physiology, 106(2), 285-296.
                          Last edited by ; 02-13-2013, 07:42 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by LG1 View Post
                            I worked with Skip in the past on a 6-month fat loss cycle and I was doing SSC/LISS. Worked pretty well in my case. I have never personally tried doing HIIT.
                            I have seen others claim that HIIT is superior to LISS/SSC for fat loss in addtion to being more muscle sparing... still skepticle of it.
                            I, too worked with Skip for all of 2012. However, towards the end I substituted "conditioning work" (Prowler, hill sprints, tire work) for LISS, and I found it worked more effectively FOR ME. Of course, 98% of my success was Skip's diet, but I really noticed the difference when I stopped doing SSC.

                            PLUS-I fucking hate cardio. It bores me to death, and I'm god damned impatient. Hence, other work is better for me.
                            You're perfect, yes it's true. But without me...you're only you.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by -AJA14- View Post
                              Damn, how do you stay so lean.
                              http://www.scottstevensonphd.com/336...2_16-10-18.pdf

                              Maybe I should pay closer attention to this, but lately (online and in the gym), i've been getting questions like the above, and even guys just asking, "What's the secret?..."

                              The big picture might help answer that for ya: I've been at this for over 3 decades now (lots of fiddling with variables and dieting down many times and many clients), training my ass off, and having the ability to manipulate diet pretty easily (kind of a gift, I've noticed). Also, when you've got more muscle mass, staying and getting lean is much easier, IME.

                              Are you really interested(?), or was this just kind of a "Damn, dude!!!" comment?...

                              -S
                              The Book Has Arrived!
                              The Book Has Arrived!

                              Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


                              www.TrueNutrition.com

                              2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
                              2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
                              2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X