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Crossfit athletes: genetic freaks or AAS?

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  • Crossfit athletes: genetic freaks or AAS?

    what are your guys opinions about the top crossfit guys and their ability to perform these feats of strength naturally? Some of these guys look hard as fuck year round. They don't do anything overly impressive strength or endurance wise, but seem to be consistant at a variety of feats of strength. Some of these guys have 285lb overhead press, 550lb deadlifts and run 5 minute miles. I can believe those numbers naturally but I just don't get how they look the way they do year round.

    Genetic freaks or AAS?

    5'10, 195lbs

    http://crossfit-games.edgesuite.net/...le_Rotator.jpg


    5'7, 175
    http://games.crossfit.com/sites/defa...y_Floater3.jpg

    5'11, 190
    http://crossfit-games.edgesuite.net/...or-605x312.jpg

    what do you think?

  • #2
    I think you've oversimplified the situation considerably.

    Are there simply two factors that may play a role in the performance or body fat of the top cross-fit athletes?... Is it possible that some of these (other) factors may interact?

    Aside from that, you say, "They don't do anything overly impressive strength or endurance wise, but seem to be consistant at a variety of feats of strength."

    I'm guessing from this - "I can believe those numbers naturally but I just don't get how they look the way they do year round" - that you wondering if they can look like they do w/o steroids?

    IMO, Of course they can look that way without AAS, IMO. I've personally known guys who look like w/o AAS. One was a guy I went to grad school with who was measured at 5% BF repeatedly, over the course of several years in a research lab where that was a focus (using damn every method available, as we were both lab rats for them), regardless of whether he was doing any training or not. (He never really paid any attention to diet except once when we made a bet about who could go through 50lb of whey protein the fastest...)

    He was a 5'8" white guy who high jumped like 6'7" or something in high school. He could dunk a tennis ball easily and a basketball when he was hooping a lot. He'd have been a hell of a bodybuilder if he wanted to.

    -S
    The Book Has Arrived!
    The Book Has Arrived!

    Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


    www.TrueNutrition.com

    2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
    2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
    2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by homonunculus View Post
      I think you've oversimplified the situation considerably.



      -S

      agreed! I'm super bored, had some free time, haven't logged on in months and wanted to see some interesting conversation.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by syssstem View Post
        agreed! I'm super bored, had some free time, haven't logged on in months and wanted to see some interesting conversation.
        I guess we disagree on what is interesting... LOL



        -S
        The Book Has Arrived!
        The Book Has Arrived!

        Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


        www.TrueNutrition.com

        2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
        2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
        2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by homonunculus View Post
          I guess we disagree on what is interesting... LOL



          -S
          LOL!

          I read some stuff where people were debating if AAS would even help a crossfit athlete. The indicators they were using to test/debate athletecism were the following:

          cardiovascular endurance, stamina, strength, flexability, power, speed, coordination, agility, balance and accuracy.

          In their model for athletecism they go further and define each variable.

          Some were argueing that AAS CAN improve each facet of athletecism identified through this crossfit model and thus would benefit a crossfit athlete.

          Others argue that if you use AAS to improve certain areas, other areas will decrease. They used the example of increasing strength to a degree that cardiovascular endurance performance decreases.


          Can different compounds improve / target different facets of that model? Or are there still way too many variables left unaccounted for?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by syssstem View Post
            LOL!

            I read some stuff where people were debating if AAS would even help a crossfit athlete. The indicators they were using to test/debate athletecism were the following:

            cardiovascular endurance, stamina, strength, flexability, power, speed, coordination, agility, balance and accuracy.

            In their model for athletecism they go further and define each variable.

            Some were argueing that AAS CAN improve each facet of athletecism identified through this crossfit model and thus would benefit a crossfit athlete.

            Others argue that if you use AAS to improve certain areas, other areas will decrease. They used the example of increasing strength to a degree that cardiovascular endurance performance decreases.


            Can different compounds improve / target different facets of that model? Or are there still way too many variables left unaccounted for?
            Depends on the person, in part.

            If a person is training specifically (this is where training for cross-fit in competition may be different from doing the random WOD - I'm not a cross-fit aficionado so I don't know how these athletes are training), I can't imagine that some a substance the improves recovery will hinder performance:

            Is a cross-fit athlete who IS TRAINING along he spectrum of strength and endurance that competition performance requires, maintaining flexibility with appropriate movements (e.g., Oly lifts) and stretching, doing cardiovascular trainign specific to competition, etc. then I'd doubt that overall performance would decline.

            This (AAS) would simply be another variable to consider in monitoring progress and bodyweight changes, for instance - it's not like AAS will cause an athletes body weight to just skyrocket out of control and cause a dramatic decline in performance during bodyweight related movements. Diet (kcal and protein intake, as well as monitoring sodium levels, etc. - affecting body weight), use of ancillary drugs, appropriate drug selection (e.g., sprinters use drugs with minimal water retention) could be adjusted to titrate any changes in body mass that would adversely affect performance.

            Heck, simply a neurological effect of AAS, without any effect on body comp, could be globally ergogenic.

            For an individual who is lacking in strength, AAS would obviously be more helpful than someone who tends to be overly muscular. So, for example, it's possible that someone with a powerlifting background, a strongly endomorphic disposition might not benefit from a substance that causes muscle mass retention when trying to streamline for competition. A marathon runner who is lacking in muscle mass might get great ergogenic effect from AAS.

            ------

            (Again, the question about "AAS" is oversimplified b/c lumping together all AAS neglects their different effects. Also, individual responsiveness to drugs, diet, training and situations (e.g., previous training and body composition) make the answer a different one for each person. Hell, then there are men vs. women...)

            This was a bit more complex than the original question, though...

            -S
            The Book Has Arrived!
            The Book Has Arrived!

            Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


            www.TrueNutrition.com

            2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
            2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
            2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by homonunculus View Post
              Depends on the person, in part.

              If a person is training specifically (this is where training for cross-fit in competition may be different from doing the random WOD - I'm not a cross-fit aficionado so I don't know how these athletes are training), I can't imagine that some a substance the improves recovery will hinder performance:

              Is a cross-fit athlete who IS TRAINING along he spectrum of strength and endurance that competition performance requires, maintaining flexibility with appropriate movements (e.g., Oly lifts) and stretching, doing cardiovascular trainign specific to competition, etc. then I'd doubt that overall performance would decline.

              This (AAS) would simply be another variable to consider in monitoring progress and bodyweight changes, for instance - it's not like AAS will cause an athletes body weight to just skyrocket out of control and cause a dramatic decline in performance during bodyweight related movements. Diet (kcal and protein intake, as well as monitoring sodium levels, etc. - affecting body weight), use of ancillary drugs, appropriate drug selection (e.g., sprinters use drugs with minimal water retention) could be adjusted to titrate any changes in body mass that would adversely affect performance.

              Heck, simply a neurological effect of AAS, without any effect on body comp, could be globally ergogenic.

              For an individual who is lacking in strength, AAS would obviously be more helpful than someone who tends to be overly muscular. So, for example, it's possible that someone with a powerlifting background, a strongly endomorphic disposition might not benefit from a substance that causes muscle mass retention when trying to streamline for competition. A marathon runner who is lacking in muscle mass might get great ergogenic effect from AAS.

              ------

              (Again, the question about "AAS" is oversimplified b/c lumping together all AAS neglects their different effects. Also, individual responsiveness to drugs, diet, training and situations (e.g., previous training and body composition) make the answer a different one for each person. Hell, then there are men vs. women...)

              This was a bit more complex than the original question, though...

              -S
              Solid response! I can definitely understand how smaller endurance athletes could benefit from certain compounds that increase strength and muscle mass. This is because increased strength and muscle mass is all I am aware AAS does. I have only heard "stories" of them increasing hand eye coordination, endurance etc. I have no idea the physiology behind how this happens, if it even does.

              I personally don't know enough about AAS and have no idea what compounds target the previously identified components of athleticism.

              What compounds are strength athletes historically labelled as favoring? What physiological advantage does this or these compound(s) provide?


              What compounds are endurance athletes historically labeled as favoring? What physiological advantage does this or these compound(s) provide?

              Comment


              • #8
                Syssstem,

                We're already treading close to the board rules regarding this discussion.

                If you'd like to learn about which drugs different athletes use, I'd suggest doing some googling. Wrong board for that here. (Might be a decent way to help with that boredom, too. )

                -S


                Originally posted by syssstem View Post
                Solid response! I can definitely understand how smaller endurance athletes could benefit from certain compounds that increase strength and muscle mass. This is because increased strength and muscle mass is all I am aware AAS does. I have only heard "stories" of them increasing hand eye coordination, endurance etc. I have no idea the physiology behind how this happens, if it even does.

                I personally don't know enough about AAS and have no idea what compounds target the previously identified components of athleticism.

                What compounds are strength athletes historically labelled as favoring? What physiological advantage does this or these compound(s) provide?


                What compounds are endurance athletes historically labeled as favoring? What physiological advantage does this or these compound(s) provide?
                The Book Has Arrived!
                The Book Has Arrived!

                Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


                www.TrueNutrition.com

                2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
                2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
                2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by homonunculus View Post
                  Syssstem,

                  We're already treading close to the board rules regarding this discussion.

                  If you'd like to learn about which drugs different athletes use, I'd suggest doing some googling. Wrong board for that here. (Might be a decent way to help with that boredom, too. )

                  -S
                  Ya i thought we were too I had to re-word the question a few times and it still is on the endge.

                  As for searching google, meh, i don't really care that much lol.

                  I'm mostly curious if any athletes are optimizing their performance via AAS. If so what ones. but we will never know and can only speculate. so the curiosity ends there.

                  I was hoping I could read the speculations of some board members and agree / disagree with their logic.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by syssstem View Post
                    Ya i thought we were too I had to re-word the question a few times and it still is on the endge.

                    As for searching google, meh, i don't really care that much lol.

                    I'm mostly curious if any athletes are optimizing their performance via AAS. If so what ones. but we will never know and can only speculate. so the curiosity ends there.

                    I was hoping I could read the speculations of some board members and agree / disagree with their logic.
                    LOL

                    Well, since your interest level isn't even high enough to do your own google search, I'm sure you'll get many interested parties here who would be dying to indulge your boredom by typing out detailed responses...

                    Glad to be of service.

                    -S
                    The Book Has Arrived!
                    The Book Has Arrived!

                    Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a pristine, well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, used up, worn out, and shouting, "Holy #$&^%$^... What a ride!!!"


                    www.TrueNutrition.com

                    2012 NPC Master's Nationals HW 5th. Mid-USA HW & Overall
                    2010 NPC Jr. USA HW 4th, Pacific USA Heavy 2nd
                    2009 NPC Mr. Arizona HW & Overall, Jr. Nationals HW 16th, Smoked at USA's

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by homonunculus View Post
                      LOL

                      Well, since your interest level isn't even high enough to do your own google search, I'm sure you'll get many interested parties here who would be dying to indulge your boredom by typing out detailed responses...

                      Glad to be of service.

                      -S
                      google searches seem to bring me to other forums. from there I end up reading random peoples opinions and have no one to validate the assumptions I develop.

                      at least here I somewhat know different posters credibility and biases.

                      haha thx

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm gonna go ahead and address the pink elephant in the room and say regardless of their roid use, they're all pretty fuckin gay for doing Crossfit.
                        Ph.D., Theoretical Physics '16
                        kind of a douche

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sammich View Post
                          I'm gonna go ahead and address the pink elephant in the room and say regardless of their roid use, they're all pretty fuckin gay for doing Crossfit.
                          ahahah.

                          not trying to measure gay right now sammich.

                          http://crossfitbattlefield.com/wp-co...on-khalipa.jpg

                          just measuring MG of test to be 5'10 220 year round lol

                          edit: honestly we mid as well try and guess what Klokov Dmitry takes because we will never know what any of these people are doing.

                          I guess we could narrow down what strength athletes take and what endurance athletes take and then guess what would be the best hybrid package for people who do both in the same day?
                          Last edited by syssstem; 01-14-2013, 12:42 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by homonunculus View Post
                            I guess we disagree on what is interesting... LOL



                            -S
                            Oh S M A C K. LOL

                            That just fucking KILLED me right there.

                            Skip


                            Facebook: Skip Hill
                            Instagram: @intensemuscle
                            YouTube: TEAMSKIP
                            TikTok: @intensemuscle


                            For Training Inquiries: [email protected]

                            Use discount code "SKIP" and get your TEAM SKIP protein here: www.TrueNutrition.com/TEAMSKIPblend

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                            • #15
                              I will go out on a limb here and admit that I don't think Crossfit is gay, at all. I think that anything that isn't bodybuilding, powerlifting or strongman, is considered gay.

                              To me, crossfit is about as healthy as you can get and might be the best way to stay in incredible shape with a more normal balance of muscle mass vs. conditioning. I do find it funny that hardly anyone in Crossfit has a damned tan. That shows about how much they care about their overall look. I think it is seen as more of a health and fitness thing than a vanity thing like bodybuilding is.

                              Skip


                              Facebook: Skip Hill
                              Instagram: @intensemuscle
                              YouTube: TEAMSKIP
                              TikTok: @intensemuscle


                              For Training Inquiries: [email protected]

                              Use discount code "SKIP" and get your TEAM SKIP protein here: www.TrueNutrition.com/TEAMSKIPblend

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