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  • Eccentric phase of deadlift

    How quickly are you supposed to lower the bar during deadlifts? Is it the same as RP lifts, 6-8 seconds, or rather powerlifting way, fairly quick. Also, do you reset every rep or touch and go?

  • #2
    Somewhere in this thread is a great video that shows good lifting speed. The whole thread is worth the read...

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    • #3
      Drop it quickly in a controlled manner.

      Resetting vs. touch and go might be dependent on your lifting style, but personally I reset. This is to allow me to assume a proper arch before lifting again, whereas with touch and go I might lose my arch between reps and make myself prone to injury.

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      • #4
        There is no eccentric portion to a deadlift. But read the deadlift tips thread and you'll learn a lot.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by big ross View Post
          There is no eccentric portion to a deadlift.
          Really? How do you call it when you lower the bar to the floor slowly?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Ursus View Post
            Really? How do you call it when you lower the bar to the floor slowly?
            Taking a risk at back injury?

            I'd just go for a 'controlled' crash. Slowly? No way.
            I've won on so many levels already I don't even care how I do at the show. I just wanna look damn good!!

            --Steel

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            Treat them like they are old and eat soup... and they will be.

            Train 'em hard and feed them like a stud... and they will be.

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            • #7
              Don't overthink it...

              From this thread: http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthr...ive#post435591

              Originally posted by Doggcrapp View Post
              No you did not read that by me, Inhuman liked to do something like that, I didnt neccesarily agree with that in all cases....but I have said "if you have a partner its always good to finish on the negative if you can on certain exercises, and if you know your not going to get another positive rep anyway, you might as well lower it slow.

              I told people to use a 6 second negative back in the day knowing people counted fast when they were breathing heavy and exerting great energy (which usually came out to 123456 (2-3 seconds).....people started using stop watches and having their partners count .......big mistake on my part.

              I cannot believe after all the damage control all these years on this topic ive done that this is still coming around.

              Can we clear this up for once and for all? Alot of cellular damage happens during an eccentric phase.....I want control. Depending on the exercise and range of motion control can mean 1-2 second or 3-4 seconds, I got no idea how tall you are or what exercise your using---i sure as hell wouldnt want to see someone drop the negative on a preacher curl in one second that is for sure. All i want is you to lower the bar so that in your head you know that if you had to......you could reverse direction and go the other way (christ lets say for hypothetical reasons there was a bunson burner flame there and you had to come back up or you would get burnt--LOL)
              During a rest pause set of lets say 11-20rp....lets hypothetically use bicep curls, lets say during your first rest pause you got 9 reps and on the 9th curl upward you absolutely know you are spent--you got nothing--there is no chance in hell of getting #10....now if you can why not lower the bar a little bit slower than normal and use the negative to your advantage on that rep, your not getting another positive rep....and if you cant and you are so absolutely spent you can only lower it at our normal (control) lowering pace...then thats fine too--no problem. Arrrrrgh just control the negative......
              Be true to yourself and fuel your body with nothing less the highest quality supplements. Only available at TrueNutrition.com Use discount code: KSP945 to save 5% on your order!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Dean3238 View Post
                Taking a risk at back injury?

                I'd just go for a 'controlled' crash. Slowly? No way.
                A deadlift has no eccentric, controlled crash is the best term to use.

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                • #9
                  Thanks to Mentalflex for posting Dante's comments on the topic that just won't go away.

                  Ursus,

                  You should deadlift in the manner that you're accustomed to and is safest for you. Generally, for muscle building and thus DC training, you want eccentric loading. This can be done MUCH more easily with a rack dead, which is my preference for people who are doing DC training generally speaking, b/c you can safely control the descent on that lift.

                  Whether you touch and go is up to you, as well. If you get into the habit of bouncing the bar off the safeties when doing rack pulls, this can limit the loading you're getting, so beware that.

                  Essentially, if you're ready for DC and especially if you're someone who should be trying to progressively overload on deads in the 4-8rep range (I prefer 6-8), then you should already have an established deadlift form that is safe and productive.

                  Full deads, and back thickness exercises in general, are straight setted in DC training for safety (low back) issues, so you should use a form that let's you progress safely without compromising your low back or adjusting form to "progress" in terms or weight or reps. If your gym allows you to do sets of 4-12 reps of full deads and do a controlled "drop" of the weight (where the release is a practiced skill and intentional means of re-setting for each rep), then that could be an option.

                  Full deads hit the legs quite a bit, and can sometimes therefore target the back less (for most, but not all). This means full deads can be great if you (honestly) need that overlap on leg and glute stimulation, but can also cause low back problems d/t overlapping low back strain with squats, etc., and slow progression on lower body training if your leg drive is a prominent feature of how you deadlift (stance choice, biomechanics, etc.)

                  ------

                  Bottom line is that if you're asking this, I'd wonder if you should be doing DC training first and foremost (I think this a lot, though) and secondarily, I'd generally recommend using controlled (eccentric) form on a rack deads at a comfortable starting height between the mid-shin and the knee cap rather than full deads. However, full deads are one of the best damn exercises out there and I've got NO problem if someone feels strongly about using them in a program like DC - none at all. (You just have to work the program around them appropriately.)

                  -Scott
                  The Book Has Arrived!
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                  • #10
                    Guys, I have a gym with great equipment but I dont have a rack (only squat rack).
                    Unfortunantely I also must be very careful during deadlift because my gym is on 2nd floor,so I cant drop the weight (also there arent any bumpers and making noise is a problem).

                    Would partial deadlift from top of the knee be the best choice for me?
                    I have great success with it,but I AM NOT SURE IS THIS MOVEMENT PATTERN SAFE?

                    So what would be your opinions? Also ima pulling light weight,high reps,last week 315x15...

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Dorian32 View Post
                      Guys, I have a gym with great equipment but I dont have a rack (only squat rack).
                      Unfortunantely I also must be very careful during deadlift because my gym is on 2nd floor,so I cant drop the weight (also there arent any bumpers and making noise is a problem).

                      Would partial deadlift from top of the knee be the best choice for me?
                      I have great success with it,but I AM NOT SURE IS THIS MOVEMENT PATTERN SAFE?

                      So what would be your opinions? Also ima pulling light weight,high reps,last week 315x15...
                      Before determining whether an exercise work for you, look at your training goals and the structure of your program. Does the exercise lend itself to your goals? Does it fit with the rest of your training program? Can you take the exercise to failure safely (if you train each set to failure)? Can you make consistent progress?

                      Based on your statement about using high reps, I am under the impression that you are not doing DC training, am I correct?

                      Since this is in the Dogg Pound, looking at it from a DC perspective, my initial impression is that this exercise would not be your most effective option for a back thickness exercise due to the strain on the lower back, issues with reaching failure and dropping the weight too quickly, and the ease with which your form can break down when moving heavy weight, which would increase the potential for injury.

                      Since Homon is in this thread, I am sure he will have the PROFESSIONAL opinion on the topic, but I just wanted to throw my thoughts into the mix.

                      Also, have you considered using blocks or platforms to rest the weight on to pull off of?
                      Last edited by mentalflex; 10-04-2012, 09:28 AM.
                      Be true to yourself and fuel your body with nothing less the highest quality supplements. Only available at TrueNutrition.com Use discount code: KSP945 to save 5% on your order!

                      Stickies...just read the damn stickies...

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                      2014 Tracey Greenwood Classic Bantam Open - 1st
                      2015 Beat Cancer!

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                      • #12
                        Along the same lines: what about trap bar deadlifts. First, do they have a place in DC, second, full reset or touch and go?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ursus View Post
                          Along the same lines: what about trap bar deadlifts. First, do they have a place in DC, second, full reset or touch and go?
                          Trap bar deadlifts heavily emphasize the legs. It puts you in a similar position as a squat. Because of how much they stress the legs, these wouldn't be the best option for back thickness, and because of the limiting factor of grip and depth of the movement (unless you use all 25's) it may not be your best option for quads.

                          Just my $0.02.....
                          Be true to yourself and fuel your body with nothing less the highest quality supplements. Only available at TrueNutrition.com Use discount code: KSP945 to save 5% on your order!

                          Stickies...just read the damn stickies...

                          2014 Xcalibur Cup Bantam Open - 1st
                          2014 Tracey Greenwood Classic Bantam Open - 1st
                          2015 Beat Cancer!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by homonunculus View Post

                            Bottom line is that if you're asking this, I'd wonder if you should be doing DC training first and foremost (I think this a lot, though) and secondarily, I'd generally recommend using controlled (eccentric) form on a rack deads at a comfortable starting height between the mid-shin and the knee cap rather than full deads. However, full deads are one of the best damn exercises out there and I've got NO problem if someone feels strongly about using them in a program like DC - none at all. (You just have to work the program around them appropriately.)

                            -Scott
                            For the record, I am not doing DC, just curious. I train at home, so doing DC is not possible. There is quite a bit o emphasis in DC on eccentrics, and I was wondering if it is the same in deads. thanks for the reply.

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