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Training Back Twice/Week

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  • Training Back Twice/Week

    sup guys so I follow a standard split where I hit each body part 1-2/week

    Chest/Tris
    Back/Bis
    Shoulders

    Rest Day

    Arms
    Legs

    Rest Day

    On chest and back day I do sets for bi's and tri's with little resistance but constant tension, short rest periods, and really focus on MMC.
    ----

    So my back really sucks compared to the rest of my body. I think its because I struggled for such a long time to establish a good MMC. Nowadays I've completely changed the way I execute the movements. For instance on back day I start with wide grip pull-ups but I stretch and pause at the bottom, flex my abs during the concentric to put more tension on the lats, use constant tension, etc. I've also been incorporating activation techniques like strict, light cable pullovers to activate the lats before main movements.

    Right now I can probably do 12 pull-ups with such form at a bodyweight ~200. To give you an idea of my sucky lats/back.

    So I was thinking of how I can train back twice/week. My back is usually not sore by arm day. So I was thinking, should I maybe change my bicep exercises on arm day from

    Strict (back against wall) Barbell Curl
    Alternating DB Hammer Curls
    Incline DB Curls

    to

    DB Rows
    Chinups
    Incline DB Curls

    I don't think my arms will lose size, esp. since I finish them on back day too. i'm trying to incorporate dante's advice here for if you have a week body part...he's mentioned this type of exercise switch for people using DC training

  • #2
    To be honest, I think you are over analyzing it. Put all of your intensity into one day and I think your results will be excellent. However, if you feel that's not enough, you could go for a second day f you recover fast enough. Personally speaking I have trouble training a body part more than once a week. This is just my opinion and I am not an expert.
    -coop

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    • #3
      how can i get into a good shape , i am a beginner. ?

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      • #4
        If you are sure you want to do it just switch your arm and leg day. Do a few back exercises before you start with arms. Pullups, UH rows will hit a little bicep and cable pullover a bit of tricep. Do back, bi, tri. You could also divide Your workouts into upper back and thickness workouts.

        Now I would actually bet that you just need time. Your back is huge, a shit load of muscles that you probably never knew about, and you probably didn't contract it and all that correctly before. Post up your back workout and if you feel fresh a video. Might be as simple as needing more time, adjusting volume, or technique.
        Last edited by big ross; 08-20-2012, 06:47 PM.

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        • #5
          typical back/bi day

          warmup with some light lat pulldowns, light cable pullovers

          Wide Grip Pullups "bodybuilder style"
          3 sets of 8, 2 min rest

          Seated Chest Supported Neutral Grip Row
          3 sets of 8 - 12, 2 min rest

          Close Grip Neutral Lat Pulldowns
          3 sets of 8 - 10, 2 min rest

          Seated Unliteral Cable Row (or Dumbbell Row)
          3 sets of 10 - 15, 2 min rest

          maybe some light cable pullovers

          by this time my back is pumped

          then maybe

          3 sets of 12 - 15 cable curls, 1 min rest

          3 sets of Alternating Standing DB curls, 1 min rest


          and thats about it. I guess hanging from a pull-up bar for time at the end would be a nice addition.

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          • #6
            honestly though if I start using straps on DB Rows and master the technique (have been getting a LOT better recently, keeping constant tension on the lower lat) I probably won't need to train back twice a week. I should probably just focus on getting to sets of 100+ on that before I add another back session...

            yeah thanks for the input guys I'll just be patient for now. And really focus on giving it my all the one day. I think I will change my main bicep exercise on arm day to weighted chin-ups though

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            • #7
              Your only 19, In my opinion you should be on a three or four day split instead of five. That and make sure you research the hell out of your nutrition. Train smarter and not harder. At your age I made my best gains when I finally started to train less frequently throughout the week.
              :preach:

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              • #8
                Your back day has no free weights unless you do DB rows. You have no type of DL? If I was in your position, I've actually run your split but five days in a row, I would go pull up, DB or BB row (whichever you feel more, personally I think UH row has a small learning curve and an help you feel the low lat), cable pull over with rope, face pulls, rack DL. You are a volume guy and if you go once a week it should be fine. For bi's just a bar curl and a hammer curl. Alternate EZ/straight and pinwheel/straight curls, do one on back day and the other in arm day.

                I think rope pullovers should really help you to learn to contract the lats, UH row will teach you to pull the elbows not biceps, and a DL should give you some trap work and thickness.

                This is all general my man and I'm just giving you basic advice and principles I used when I was starting out. I actually think volume is good for a beginner do you can learn all the exercises, learn to feel the muscles. Once you learn your bread and butter ex's you can cut it down a bit.

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                • #9
                  yo BIG ROSS i like that advice!

                  I think I've gotten my db row technique down, so I'll probably choose that one, with straps of course. I like unilateral exercises/dumbbells because I'm a bit asymmetrical. What I do is put my torso at a slight incline angle, head up, keeping torso tight, and then let my arm hang with the DB. Then I pull the dumbbell upward, but not to my chest area, but moreso letting my arm glide in a slight arc up alongside my torso, keeping my elbow in, bringing the DB to my hip/pelvis area.

                  So I'll probably change back/bis day to

                  Wide Grip

                  Pullups 3 sets of 8 - 10 [2 min rest]

                  DB Rows 3 sets of 8 - 10 [2 min rest]

                  Cable Pullover with Rope 3 sets of 12 - 15 [2 min rest] <--- funny you mentioned this, tried it for like the first time a week or two back and was blown away at how much easier it was to feel the lats compared to a straight bar pullover.

                  Rack DL 3 sets of 8 - 10 [3 min rest] <--- haven't done these in a while. From what height should I pull from? Bar at knee level? Should I pause each rep? What are the loading parameters, lower reps or higher reps? Straps I'm assuming?

                  Omitting the face pulls because I do em the next day on shoulders day. love that movement


                  how does that look and tips/videos of good technique for the lifts above?

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                  • #10
                    If you search in the ISOM section there are alot of rack DL's. Personally I do them right at the knee or maybe an inch below the patella. The touch and go or pause is up to you. I am extremely asymmetrical so touch and go doesn't really work for me because I'm never even. I would do the rows heavy (or exteemely high reps 20+, called the kroc row) and the racks heavy 4-10 range (if you find your groove you can actually go significantly higher reps). The DB row you described is right on the nose. The rack DL go double over with straps is my preferable method. With the pullover I do it almost like a row, head down while hands are high, as I bring it down I push my cheat up and lift my head. I prefer the rope or a curl bar but once you get the hang of it it doesn't matter. Another consideration is when you are finished with everything do one or two sets of pull ups with your strongest grip as a finisher.

                    I envy your position, I can remember being exactly in the same weight, age, height. This is a good time to learn your bread and butter exercises, experiment, and have fun in there.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by liftweights View Post
                      Your only 19, In my opinion you should be on a three or four day split instead of five. That and make sure you research the hell out of your nutrition. Train smarter and not harder. At your age I made my best gains when I finally started to train less frequently throughout the week.
                      I can't agree with this enough. I always thought the more I was in the gym the bigger and stronger I would be and that is far from the truth. The more you're in the kitchen though... That's a different story.

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                      • #12
                        You guys may be right about changing to perhaps a 4 day split. One reason why I like 5 days a week is simply put I feel it keeps my metabolism faster and I actually have really begun to enjoy lifting itself. I used to train less frequently 3-4 days/week with lower reps and less volume but I wasn't enjoying myself in the gym. Now I actually look forward to it.

                        Also, my big bro is the one who got me into lifting and he made his biggest gains sophomore year of college (which I'm about to start) on a very similar split and eating a ton of course. He went from like 195 to 230-240. It seems like maybe we can just tolerate more volume, provided the food and sleep are there.

                        Nowadays he trains chest/tri-back/bi-shoulder/tri-leg/bi-off-repeat schedule and still making gains...basically 6 days per week...he's about 240 and reps 315 on bench, 225 smith shoulder press, etc he's pretty beastly...so part of me wants to just follow in his footsteps.

                        ------

                        I'm currently still making gains so I'm going to stay training 5 days/week. If it aint broke, don't fix it. However as school starts and my schedule/eating/sleeping becomes moe unpredictable...if I stop making gains...I'll reduce training frequency. Shoulders are my strongest body part followed by legs so I'd maybe do

                        chest/tri
                        back/bi
                        off
                        leg/shoulder
                        bi/tri
                        off
                        off

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                        • #13
                          also today I weighed 204.2 (nearly 5 lbs heavier than last week lol!!) but did the same number of wide grip pull-ups with my new and improved form. I actually almost got one more rep, but only went halfway. so close. 8, 2 min rest, 8, 2 min rest, 6.5

                          embarrassed I can't get 3 sets of 8 yet. but doing the same reps with a higher bodyweight is still a PR so ill take it.

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                          • #14
                            I like workin out and if you can take the volume it's fun. I did it from 14-24, went frim 150-220. When I started 5/3/1 I gained 20 pounds in about 5 months and can knock out about 15 pull ups in a row. I love volume and it's fun but limiting volume is a good idea 90% of the time.
                            Your brother is on a BB'er split, sounds like a pro one with legs and bi's same day. The bigger and stronger you get the more you'll need to limit the volume but for now stick with it. When you have a bulk phase and want to try something new look into 5/3/1, I really like it and he gives you a swift kick in the ass with his no nonsense.

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