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  • Fasted cardio

    This video appeared on my feed today and I found it interesting and i guess its a pretty controversial discussion in the industry.

    [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCIXwmKvGlc&feature=g-all-u[/YOUTUBE]

    What do you guys think? Is fasted cardio the most effective for burning fat?

  • #2
    no
    -2013 USAPL Michigan State Championships 198lb Raw Mens Open, 1st Place (1217 total)
    -2013 USAPL Texas State Championships
    198 Raw Mens Open, 2nd place (1216 total)
    -2012 USAPL Longhorn Open
    198 Raw Mens Open, 1st place (1177 total)
    -2012 USAPL Aggie Showdown
    198lb Raw Mens Open, 2nd place (1137 total)

    Comment


    • #3
      http://www.alanaragon.com/myths-unde...ed-cardio.html
      -2013 USAPL Michigan State Championships 198lb Raw Mens Open, 1st Place (1217 total)
      -2013 USAPL Texas State Championships
      198 Raw Mens Open, 2nd place (1216 total)
      -2012 USAPL Longhorn Open
      198 Raw Mens Open, 1st place (1177 total)
      -2012 USAPL Aggie Showdown
      198lb Raw Mens Open, 2nd place (1137 total)

      Comment


      • #4
        hmm this is a good read. thanks for the info

        Comment


        • #5
          No problem.

          Just to be clear, i'm not saying fasted cardio is no good... just that it is not better or worse really. It comes down to calories burned, calories consumed, and making sure your macro breakdown matches up with whatever approach you are utilizing. The same thing goes for Long Slow Steady State cardio VS HIIT cardio.
          -2013 USAPL Michigan State Championships 198lb Raw Mens Open, 1st Place (1217 total)
          -2013 USAPL Texas State Championships
          198 Raw Mens Open, 2nd place (1216 total)
          -2012 USAPL Longhorn Open
          198 Raw Mens Open, 1st place (1177 total)
          -2012 USAPL Aggie Showdown
          198lb Raw Mens Open, 2nd place (1137 total)

          Comment


          • #6
            That article doesn't make much sense. The purpose of doing fasted cardio is to increase fat oxidation because of no glycogen, drinking a carb laden drink will of course be counterproductive. Interesting the other points made about higher intensities not being effected by the drink.
            I think the video has a good point on havin just a one or two hour window being short sided view. If you are doing fasted cardio it should be at a low intensity to protect the muscle and hopefully target the fat. If you go balls to the wall you get all the negative effects he speaks about.
            Lock it up had some good posts a long time ago where he basically shit on HIIT in favor or LISS cardio.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by big ross View Post
              That article doesn't make much sense. The purpose of doing fasted cardio is to increase fat oxidation because of no glycogen, drinking a carb laden drink will of course be counterproductive. Interesting the other points made about higher intensities not being effected by the drink.
              I think the video has a good point on havin just a one or two hour window being short sided view. If you are doing fasted cardio it should be at a low intensity to protect the muscle and hopefully target the fat. If you go balls to the wall you get all the negative effects he speaks about.
              Lock it up had some good posts a long time ago where he basically shit on HIIT in favor or LISS cardio.
              Any chance you can link me to these posts?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by big ross View Post
                That article doesn't make much sense. The purpose of doing fasted cardio is to increase fat oxidation because of no glycogen, drinking a carb laden drink will of course be counterproductive.
                While you would obviously going to be burning less fat when having a carb source pre-workout, you will end up burning more fat later in the day due to having less carbs for fuel then... it all equals out when looking at it from an isocaloric standpoint.

                It really comes down to preference. Aragon gives lot's of references to prove this point so i'm not sure what doesn't make sense to you...

                I think this is a good point for the 3rd part of the article...

                "Fasted = Suboptimal

                Fasted cardio is not optimal for reasons spanning beyond its questionable track record in research. There’s unavoidable positive metabolic synergy in fed (read: properly fueled) training, regardless of sport. This effect increases with intensity of training; even in untrained subjects, whatever fat oxidation is suppressed during training is compensated for in the recovery period by multiple mechanisms, many of which are not yet identified.

                Athletes are known for their gravitation towards self-sacrifice, but some rely on hearsay, while others rely on science. Did you know that way back in the 60’s, it wasn’t uncommon for coaches to tell athletes in various sports to avoid drinking water before and during training? No comment needed. Good thing researchers questioned it, and enough data surfaced to validate claims of the skeptics. Sometimes counterproductive dogma indeed dies, thank goodness. However, the myths addressed here are admittedly more subtle than the water example. Even on suboptimal protocols, athletes all over the world still inch along, although not at optimal rates, and not necessarily to optimal levels.

                So...

                I see the bottom line like this.. Do the type you have a personal preference for, and also respect your physical limits. HIIT is quicker but riskier. LISS is safer but takes twice as long to accomplish the same thing. Again, do what you prefer & can tolerate, but do NOT make the mistake of assuming that LISS burns more fat. That's misunderstanding the physiology of the matter.

                I’ll end off by challenging you to diligently review the facts before blindly latching onto the myths."
                Last edited by bbjeff86; 07-27-2012, 12:56 PM.
                -2013 USAPL Michigan State Championships 198lb Raw Mens Open, 1st Place (1217 total)
                -2013 USAPL Texas State Championships
                198 Raw Mens Open, 2nd place (1216 total)
                -2012 USAPL Longhorn Open
                198 Raw Mens Open, 1st place (1177 total)
                -2012 USAPL Aggie Showdown
                198lb Raw Mens Open, 2nd place (1137 total)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Aragon fails to make his point in the article for fasted LISS not being better than fed LISS. The idea of LISS is that you're doing low intensity work. You do not need to be in a fed state to sustain low intensity work - that's nonsense. In fact, the research Aragon cites ironically SUPPORTS the notion of doing fasted LISS vs. not. This is why big ross is confused - because Aragon is contradicting himself! What you get out of LISS cardio is immediate, because EPOC is low.

                  However, if attempting HIIT, it's better to do it in a fed state. This is because the biggest benefit from HIIT its metabolic impact from increased EPOC. The more intense your HIIT session, the more you'll burn throughout the day. If you engage in HIIT fasted, your performance may be reduced.

                  LISS: don't consume carbs prior (duh?);
                  HIIT: consume energy.
                  Last edited by Big R; 07-27-2012, 04:38 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If you burn 100 calories doing cardio (regardless of type), and you consume 2000 calories during the day (assuming those calories are of the same makeup) the net balance is going to be the same.

                    While there is no reason to consume carbs before doing LISS cardio, if you do those carbs simply wont be available later in the day at which point you will end up using body fat as fuel.

                    I'm unaware of any long term studies that show fasted cardio to be superior when looking at a 24hour period or better yet a 168 hour period (one week).
                    -2013 USAPL Michigan State Championships 198lb Raw Mens Open, 1st Place (1217 total)
                    -2013 USAPL Texas State Championships
                    198 Raw Mens Open, 2nd place (1216 total)
                    -2012 USAPL Longhorn Open
                    198 Raw Mens Open, 1st place (1177 total)
                    -2012 USAPL Aggie Showdown
                    198lb Raw Mens Open, 2nd place (1137 total)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by bbjeff86 View Post
                      If you burn 100 calories doing cardio (regardless of type), and you consume 2000 calories during the day (assuming those calories are of the same makeup) the net balance is going to be the same.

                      While there is no reason to consume carbs before doing LISS cardio, if you do those carbs simply wont be available later in the day at which point you will end up using body fat as fuel.

                      I'm unaware of any long term studies that show fasted cardio to be superior when looking at a 24hour period or better yet a 168 hour period (one week).
                      I think I see your (and his) point now. In that respect I agree. Fasted cardio does not burn off extra fat than non-fasted would.

                      Maybe I was jumping ahead in my head about this.

                      There would be a difference when someone is using some fat mobilizing agent like E/C, yohimbine/rauwolscine, or clen prior to cardio, and wants to burn that fat off maximally instead of the body's stores of glycogen. Then, doing so in a fasted state would be better because you're targetting your body's stores of fat, not something you're ingesting.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yes, using drugs does change things...
                        -2013 USAPL Michigan State Championships 198lb Raw Mens Open, 1st Place (1217 total)
                        -2013 USAPL Texas State Championships
                        198 Raw Mens Open, 2nd place (1216 total)
                        -2012 USAPL Longhorn Open
                        198 Raw Mens Open, 1st place (1177 total)
                        -2012 USAPL Aggie Showdown
                        198lb Raw Mens Open, 2nd place (1137 total)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          So fasted cardio with clen would be highly effective?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The reality is that the best cardio source is one that a trainee is able to stick to.....Some guys can't do HIIT due to certain restrictions they may have, etc. I have done fasted cardio my whole life and I like it. It supercharges my day for me....During my prep I've also been doing cardio at nite as well. When I added in the extra cardio is when I saw the most changes, obviously.....

                            I even attempted some hill sprints, kinda HIIT in that I would sprint up the hill twice, then walk at a good pace acroos the field and back, but then had to stop due to my restrictions.,....After a Skipload, in the early days of the week, my water weight was up and I got debilitating pain in my shins from being so water logged. The elliptical didn't do this to me, so I went back to that....It's all in what you can do, what you can stick with, and what gives the individual the results they are looking for....
                            STEEL




                            "SIMPLICITY, CONSISTENCY, INTENSITY"

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by steel1970 View Post
                              The reality is that the best cardio source is one that a trainee is able to stick to.....Some guys can't do HIIT due to certain restrictions they may have, etc. I have done fasted cardio my whole life and I like it. It supercharges my day for me....During my prep I've also been doing cardio at nite as well. When I added in the extra cardio is when I saw the most changes, obviously.....

                              I even attempted some hill sprints, kinda HIIT in that I would sprint up the hill twice, then walk at a good pace acroos the field and back, but then had to stop due to my restrictions.,....After a Skipload, in the early days of the week, my water weight was up and I got debilitating pain in my shins from being so water logged. The elliptical didn't do this to me, so I went back to that....It's all in what you can do, what you can stick with, and what gives the individual the results they are looking for....
                              HIIT is pretty demanding. I think it would be best used if you're not on a deficit diet.

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