powerlifting or bodybuilding for cutting?

[jameswarren1984]

some guy in the gym told me im mad for doing madcow powerlifting whilst cutting.... my view is its good as the strength helps retain muscle, he replied with you can still lift heavy doing a bodybuilding routine..

what are your guys views and opinions...

I am sticking with madcow... however recently i have suffered some serious strength losses namely deadlifting today, i was deadlifting 180 kg for 5 reps, i took a deload as was starting to get fewer reps on that weight, so ramped up to 160 today, and could only manage 2 reps!! what the hell is happening?!?!?!
my squats as well havent lost on too much strength but can tell its getting difficult, and am down from benching 120kg for 3 to 110 for 3...

Is this just part and parcel of cutting? some people have told me cutting, if done right you should not get weaker, and could possibly get stronger.
I havent relied on cutting calories too much, or cardio, i have found a happy medium, 2500 calories and 125 grams carbs workout days, and 2400 calories non workout 25 min fasting in the morning cardio, with 80 grams carbs... with a skipload once a week. Should i maybe start about increasing my skipload time of 6 hours????

[LG1]

Again, not much of a difference calorie wise on your WO days vs. non-WO days...my opinion. Also 6-hour Skipload may be the ticket... give it a shot.

[mentalflex]

Not an expert on on skiploading, but I agree with LG1 in that having a greater delta between the kcals you are consuming on workout day vs. non-workout days can improve the results of your cut, meaning drop kcals down further on non-workout days and, only if needed, up them just a little on workout days, otherwise keep them as is. Also taking carbs down even futher on non-workout days (if you can handle that) and upping them on workout days while dropping down fats might help you out here.

Generally (and there are some exceptions) if you are trying to cut and consuming below maintenance level kcals you are not going to be building muscle, at least to any significant degree. To really simplify the goal of cutting, you can say that it is to maintain strength and muscle mass while reducing bodyfat. Don't worry as much about your numbers while cutting, focus on achieving your physique goals (unless you are considering entering a pwerlifting or strength competition).

[DCBliever]

some guy in the gym told me im mad for doing madcow powerlifting whilst cutting.... my view is its good as the strength helps retain muscle, he replied with you can still lift heavy doing a bodybuilding routine..

what are your guys views and opinions...

I am sticking with madcow... however recently i have suffered some serious strength losses namely deadlifting today, i was deadlifting 180 kg for 5 reps, i took a deload as was starting to get fewer reps on that weight, so ramped up to 160 today, and could only manage 2 reps!! what the hell is happening?!?!?!
my squats as well havent lost on too much strength but can tell its getting difficult, and am down from benching 120kg for 3 to 110 for 3...

Is this just part and parcel of cutting? some people have told me cutting, if done right you should not get weaker, and could possibly get stronger.
I havent relied on cutting calories too much, or cardio, i have found a happy medium, 2500 calories and 125 grams carbs workout days, and 2400 calories non workout 25 min fasting in the morning cardio, with 80 grams carbs... with a skipload once a week. Should i maybe start about increasing my skipload time of 6 hours????

Ok, where to begin with this cluster FUBAR you are making here? How much weight have you lost? What are your macro breakdowns? YEs not much of a calorie differentce if you are cycling, cycle macros not calories maybe. Watch the longevity DVD, I'm afraid I'll say something I paid for with SKIP by accident and have to be public humiliated again, lol. That was ajoke not a dig. How often are you doing cardio? Does it always stay at 25 minutes or does it increase when you stall out? Yes trength goes down when you cut, shouldn't be drastic, I'm sure your problem lies in your diet but also I was never a fan of madcow, Wendler's 5/3/1 while dieting seems more sensible to me.

I want to see:

*Your macro breakdowns
*Breakdown of your meals
*Supplements?
*Vitamins?
*Sleeping Habits?
*Job Type?
*Stress levels?

more info

[jameswarren1984]

thanks for the advice, so will try changing it to the following....

2700 calories workout days(3 days a week) 140 grams carbs....

2200 calories non workout days (3 days a week) 65 grams carbs...

skipload 1 day

[nexa]

How many hours on the refeed train?

[jameswarren1984]

diet on workout days...

5 eggs of which 2 whole and rest just whites,

train

Whey protein with 46 grams dextrose

200 grams chicken breast and 60 grams (dry weight) rice

Whey protein shake and 40 grams (dry weight) rice

Tin of tuna and a tablespoon EVOO

Whey protien shake with tablespoon EVOO

5 egg whites

Sleep for 7-8 hours

Diet non workout days...

wake up cross trainer for 25 mins 125-130 heart rate

5 eggs 3 whole the rest whites

Whey shake with tablespoon EVOO

200 g chicken breast with 60 grams rice and tablespoon EVOO

Whey shake with 40 grams rice

Tin of tuna and tablsepoon EVOO

Whey protein with tablespoon EVOO

4 egg whites

sleeep

i was weighing 192 pounds maybe a bit more at the start, now down to 166.7 pounds anbd im 5'6.

i take met rx multi vits and met rx whey and that is it.
i work 4 hours a day 8pm to 12pm doing light physical work.

[jameswarren1984]

i currently am and have been doing 6 hours for the refeed

[mentalflex]

thanks for the advice, so will try changing it to the following....

2700 calories workout days(3 days a week) 140 grams carbs....

2200 calories non workout days (3 days a week) 65 grams carbs...

skipload 1 day

How has your weight loss been thus far? If you were doing well with 2,500 kcals you can stay at that level and improve the timing of your nutrients. For example, focus your carbs around workout time, pre-intra-post, and the rest of your meals can be P/F. If you are getting the nutrients into your body when you need them most (around your workout) then it will help with recovery and you may be able to hold on to some additional strength.

This is just one of many strategies, but it has worked well with me, which is why I felt it deserved a mention

EDIT: jsut saw your diet, try dropping the rice on non-workout days. Yes, it will be tough, but no one said perfection was easy lol

[jameswarren1984]

dropping rice completely???

[DCBliever]

diet on workout days...

5 eggs of which 2 whole and rest just whites,

train

Whey protein with 46 grams dextrose

200 grams chicken breast and 60 grams (dry weight) rice

Whey protein shake and 40 grams (dry weight) rice

Tin of tuna and a tablespoon EVOO

Whey protien shake with tablespoon EVOO

5 egg whites

Sleep for 7-8 hours

Diet non workout days...

wake up cross trainer for 25 mins 125-130 heart rate

5 eggs 3 whole the rest whites

Whey shake with tablespoon EVOO

200 g chicken breast with 60 grams rice and tablespoon EVOO

Whey shake with 40 grams rice

Tin of tuna and tablsepoon EVOO

Whey protein with tablespoon EVOO

4 egg whites

sleeep

i was weighing 192 pounds maybe a bit more at the start, now down to 166.7 pounds anbd im 5'6.

i take met rx multi vits and met rx whey and that is it.
i work 4 hours a day 8pm to 12pm doing light physical work.

So yeah 25-26lb loss, so yes strength will go down a little like you said it has. Also do you know how many grams of fats carbs and protein you are getting? Thats the breakdown I want to see

i currently am and have been doing 6 hours for the refeed

I'm sure it could increase incrementally as time went on to the point it became a full day eventually.

How has your weight loss been thus far? If you were doing well with 2,500 kcals you can stay at that level and improve the timing of your nutrients. For example, focus your carbs around workout time, pre-intra-post, and the rest of your meals can be P/F. If you are getting the nutrients into your body when you need them most (around your workout) then it will help with recovery and you may be able to hold on to some additional strength.

This is just one of many strategies, but it has worked well with me, which is why I felt it deserved a mention

The only reason I would keep pre and intra workout carbs out is because he's geared towards fat loss I assume but keep aminos and protein in pre-intra-post. Second cardio can be done more than 3 days a week also and can increase say 5 minutes per session when progress stalls.

I like to think of calories vs cardio on a teeter tawter(sp?) You stall, add a little cardio, you stall make some diet changes or cuts, stall add cardio etc.... Your metabolism may need a kick in the ass as well, you've been dieting forever why not tak a week and eat normal, not like crap but reset yourself, make smart choices, healthy choices but don't limit yourself, get an urge and go for it. The following week get back on it.

[mentalflex]

dropping rice completely???

Just on non-workout days. You'll burn up your glycogen stores on non-workout days and thus have to tap into fat for energy.

Like I said, IF you are able to do it. You may need a few carbs in there to help with your sanity lol

Eat some veggies to help keep you full and eat SLOW.

[mentalflex]

The only reason I would keep pre and intra workout carbs out is because he's geared towards fat loss I assume but keep aminos and protein in pre-intra-post. Second cardio can be done more than 3 days a week also and can increase say 5 minutes per session when progress stalls.

Valid point.

[jameswarren1984]

well i would consider a week off, however, i travel to amsterdam at the end of the month for the weekend, so was just gonna eat anything i wanted, miss my skipload and just eat exactly what i wanted, mainly because keeping my diet would be virtually impossible going away, and too much hassle if i was to attempt to.

you say cardio should maybe be done more than 3 times... 2 sessions a day on non workout days? or maybe on a couple workout days later in the day?

do any of you guys have zero carbs day before skiploading??

and zero carbs on non workout days? really???

[nexa]

do any of you guys have zero carbs day before skiploading??

and zero carbs on non workout days? really???

Have you tried it before?